mnealtx 0 #1 July 28, 2004 A question: Is there a planned obsolescence for gear? Reasoning: Due to work obligations and such, I will only have the opportunity to jump when I am home on vacation (2 weeks/twice a year). I'm going to be taking it VERY slowly and carefully, obviously, since currency is going to be a problem. I have no problems with buying used, if it is safe and a good value. I DO worry about buying a used rig that may end up non-airworthy due to age before I get a chance to get my money's worth out of it. Would I be better served by: 1) All new rig 2) New container, used canopies (leaning this direction at the moment) 3) All used Comments/suggestions, please?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lister55 0 #2 July 28, 2004 With your jump numbers and the knolwledge that you will only be able to jump twice a year for two weeks at a time, I would consider not even buying a rig untill that situation can change. First of all each time you come back you are going to have to do a recurrencey jump, which would most likely put you under a student size canopy for that. I would just continue to rent gear untill the time comes when you can really start getting some jumping in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #3 July 28, 2004 That's another option, and certainly the option I'll be taking in the short term. Hmm... do dropzones rent "up-jumper" rigs too? Or is it all student equipment? The cost of renting gear for the long run comes into play here, too - depending on rates, could be several jumps a day worth, which would suck!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #4 July 28, 2004 Figure out how many jumps a year you're gonna put on your gear (should you buy some). Remember kit isn’t maintenance free – you got to pay for repacks… you’ll need at least two of those a year, then there’s cypres batteries and servicing at 2 and 4 year intervals. Depreciation for every jump made on the gear and depreciation due to the fact that it’s simply getting older – especially when it comes to the cypres. If you add all that up you will take a big chunk out of the cost of renting gear. When coupled with the more particular practical difficulties you face regarding your currency this might mean swaying towards renting until you can jump on a regular basis a better idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #5 July 28, 2004 Realistically, probably somewhere around 30-50 jumps a year. Re: maintenance costs - I've looked at that as well. I suppose it's all going to come down to what dz I "home base" out of and what their gear rental costs are. I was originally looking at Skydive San Marcos, but now I'm not so sure, seeing as how their gear rental is $25/jump according to the website. As I said in the original post, rental gear is definitely the plan, short term at least. I'm just trying to figure out what course of action will best serve me. Re: jumping on a regular basis - Unfortunately, my job (communications) involves equipment that is mostly used by the military. Believe me, I've BEEN looking for a job that would get me back home. Until I find one, I'm pretty much stuck with working overseas and only getting home a couple times a year.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 July 28, 2004 There are dropzones everywhere... As Carl Bonish once said "The whole world is jumpable!" 30-50 jumps in 2 weeks really is'nt realistic unless you plan on going to Eloy, Perris, Deland or one of the other major centers that don't fly much during the week. Doing 7-10 jumps a day will wear you out and if you only jump on the weekends you are going to have to plan the time for the repeat AFF ground school and recurrency dive. $25 a jump is about going rate any where. Rigs cost lots of money, they have to be paid for some how. I'll do a break down of the maintence a rig needs to see whats better for you. New Cypres battery every 2 years: $90 Cypres 4/8 year check: $250 plus shipping Reserve repack: $40-50 New BOC: $25-40 Velcro replacement: $25-100 New risers at 500 jumps: $100 Canopy reline at 500 jumps on lines: $200-$250 Cost of a good used rig and Cypres: $2500 - $3000+ Thats a lot of money to put into something thats going to remain in a closet for 50 weeks a year.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #7 July 28, 2004 Re: DZ's everywhere - true, true... but I also know the importance of sticking with ONE set of instructors if you can; and it's going to be a while before I DON'T have to do a recurrency jump every time I come back. Re: Lot of money to sit in the closet for 48 weeks a year - that's a good point - thanks! I hadn't thought of it in exactly that light. I figured that I'd have to get my own gear, or jump student gear for the next X years. So, does that mean that most dz's DO have non-student gear available for rent? I'm hoping to find a dz that jumps throughout the week that won't absolutely bend me over on gear rental - especially if the better half DOES decide to get into the sport after her tandem. I've sent an email to Skydive Houston asking them about training options and schedules. Hopefully I'll get some good news back from them for when I'm home again in October.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #8 July 28, 2004 I've never been to a DZ that does not have at least some limited non-student gear for rent. Some are better than others. Some DZ's have fantastic demo programs, often attached to their shop/dealer/loft. Smaller DZ's have only one or two poor examples up for rent.... but like I said - there's always some gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 July 28, 2004 That's good to know....thanks!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #10 July 28, 2004 As for 'planned obsolescence' in parachute's and harness-containers, I have never heard of it. Unless, it is a 'deep, dark secret', I don't believe it exists. I would think, there would be too much involved if there were such a thing. Like anything else, parachute related equipment wears-out and deteriorates with UV exposure, cleaning/washing, packing and use. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #11 July 28, 2004 That's what I was originally asking... I remembered seeing a post about a "lifetime" on a canopy...something like 15 years or 40 repacks - similar to that, anyway, so I figured I'd try to get some clarification. Thanks, masterrig!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #12 July 28, 2004 PR Reserves have a manadtory factory inspection at 25 jumps/40 repacks. Its up to the factory at that point to see if it can go back into service or be retired.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #13 July 28, 2004 Maybe that's what I was thinking of... thanks for the info!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
friflaj 0 #14 July 29, 2004 QuoteAs for 'planned obsolescence' in parachute's and harness-containers, I have never heard of it. In the Netherlands you cannot jump a set of 25 years or over. Not sure it it goes for all parts of the rig, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #15 July 29, 2004 Interesting. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 July 29, 2004 "Planned obsolescence" is not really planned in the parachute industry. Most parachutes built during the last decade will set you down softly. We still see the occasional 30 year old closet queen that is like-new and still airworthy - by 1974 standards. However, the rest of the industry has moved on. Since then equipment has evolved to become far more comfortable and reliable. With the exception of automatic activation devices, few pieces of skydiving equipment expire after a specific shelf life. The break even point on renting vs. buying is somewhere in the 50 to 100 jump per year range. Many junior jumpers buy a 3 year old - mostly depreciated - rig for their first set of gear. Also consider that rental programs vary widely. For example, the bigger and better DZs, have well-maintained - this year's fashion - gear for rent, while smaller DZs may loan you "Bill's old rig." Rental fees are closely tied to the quality of rental gear. For example, they may let you use "Bill's old gear" for free, but Square One (Perris Valley, California) will charge you about US$25 per jump to rent the latest and greatest. Square One's rental program is tied to their sales program, to let you try out the latest and greatest, in hopes that you will buy it. They used to drop the rental price dramatically between the time you paid for a rig and the time it arrived Start by phoning around to major DZs to enquire about the details of their rental programs. And if you can only jump two weeks out of the year, only go to busier DZs that consistently fly a bunch of tandems every weekday. Plenty of tandems ensures that the plane will fly on a regular basis and there is usually an empty seat waiting for your butt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #17 July 29, 2004 I agree, that noone in the parachute industry 'planned' for their equipment to deterioriate or 'fail' after a certain time-span. The auto industry here in the U.S., 'planned' for automobiles to be in a 'poor' condition, to intice the public to buy 'new' automobiles. Bodies rusted-out after three years, engines needed a 'lot' of work after 3-yrs. This was the 'plan'. When the public demanded that automobiles last longer, get better mileage, engines go more miles and use less gas, manufacturer's succumbed to the pressure. That isn't quite the case, with Nylon. Parachutes get a lot of use, stress and wear. Parachute manufacturer's have learned through R&D the limits of Nylon and other materials. Thus, recommendations/mandates for 'pull-tests' or returning the parachute for testing to the manufacturer to insure airworthiness. It's not about setting 'limits', just to sell parachutes, or added income for 'testing', it's about safety. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 July 29, 2004 Quote Hmm... do dropzones rent "up-jumper" rigs too? Or is it all student equipment? The cost of renting gear for the long run comes into play here, too - depending on rates, could be several jumps a day worth, which would suck! What size canopy are you using? I'm at the point where I'd like to be transitioning to the gear shop rentals, but they tend to top out at 230s at best, and until I get a bit better *and* lose 15lbs, that's not a good wingloading for me. So I'm still using the student rigs. Some have a day rate instead of a jump rate - if you were going to try to compress a lot of jumps into a small time the cost may work out well. $75/day? But the most I've ever done in a day is still only 3 - if you're going out very infrequently it may be hard to get 7+ in a day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #19 July 30, 2004 Thanks everyone for the replies - I may have mis-stated myself in the original post... perhaps a better choice of words would have been "planned service life" instead?? I'm still hoping to find a DZ in the South TX area that is jumping during the week (thus preventing the "try to get 10 jumps a day in" syndrome), and within about 3 hours drive of San Antonio. I've been emailing back and forth with Sky Dive Houston and Sky Dive San Marcos, but haven't made up my mind yet. Rental equipment availability and price does end up playing a part - it's probably not going to make that much difference for THIS trip back, as I'm going to have to make a re-currency jump and probably some coach jumps at a MINIMUM. In the future, though, is where I see gear rental making a difference. The "operating during the week" requirement is going to exist whenever I'm back, though - I only get one weekend per trip, so I'm definitely trying to maximize the time I can jump!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #20 July 30, 2004 In my experience... neither of those DZ's fly much during the week unless students are schduled. Spaceland and Houston have a Cessna that would fly with 3 or 4 jumpers so that might work if you want to just jump the Cessna in the week and the Turbine on the weekend. If you want to jump a lot on a limited vaction schedule go to Perris, Eloy, Deland or any DZ that has lots of teams at it. Going to those 3 also have the advantage of a tunnel to get your skills built up some too. With your schedule you are going to have to find someone to repack the reserve before you want to go jump or else a rush fee from a rigger that would do it might be another $50-75 Gear rental is going to add up, but figure how many jumps you are going to make, then figure you would spend at least $200-300 just maintaning your gear if you owned it. If the rental cost does not go over that then you are better off renting. Sure rental is going to cost money, but its cheaper to pay $250 in rental cost then it is to pay $3500 for a rig and $200 in maintence the first year.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #21 July 30, 2004 Since you are going to be in the South Texas area, check-out Skydive San Marcos. www.skydivesanmarcos.com They are open Tue. - Sun. They have rental gear and offer AFF, instructional tandems and etc. There is a great group of folks there and just about anything you could want or need for skydiving. They have 3-aircraft and go to 13,000 AGL. If, you get a chance, 'treat' yourself and check them out on one of your days off. Just a thought. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #22 July 30, 2004 With your schedule you are going to have to find someone to repack the reserve before you want to go jump or else a rush fee from a rigger that would do it might be another $50-75 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smart people mail their gear to a rigger (at their destination DZ) a couple of weeks before their vacation. That way their gear is freshly repacked the day before their vacation starts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #23 July 30, 2004 The reason why I'm going back home in October instead of being home now (since I'm owed 2 weeks right now) is because that is when my first grandchild is due to be born. There is NO way that I'm going to be half a continent away and miss that, sorry! I'm still emailing back and forth with Skydive Houston and Skydive San Marcos. The answers that I get back are going to determine where I end up taking the wife for her tandem and my re-entry into the sport. I work overseas and the rest of the family is in San Antonio. If/when I buy my own gear, getting it to a rigger for a repack isn't going to be a problem, as it will be at the house.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
