kimgriffin 0 #126 September 28, 2004 Tjene Schwede. Actually, the Vigil wasn't released too early at all. It was 4 years in design and testing before it was released. It's an exceptional product, but I know I'm not the one to say here since I'm obviously biased working for the company and all. Unfortunately, the shielding for static electricity wasn't strong enough on the original units. All units were replaced between April 1 and June 20 in N and S America and Canada. I'm not 100% sure on the dates for the rest of the world's exchange since it's not my territory. Since the new Vigils (with greatly increased shielding for static electricy, of course) were released in April, we estimate there have between 10,000-15,000 jumps on the 1000+ Vigil rigs worldwide with no problems. Jumps have been made in all coniditions on all sorts of skydives. There has been 1 Vigil fire on a student rig in California when a student went low and I've heard there were a couple other Vigil "saves" in Russia. So, it's not only being jumped but working as intended. If anyone is giong to be at the US Nationals in Perris, I'll have a table with some Vigil demos that people can play with, ask me questions, take free promo stuff, just say hi, what ever. Updating the website is one of many things the guys in Belgium have the works. But, I agree with you 100%, Schwede, the Vigil site could use a current news column with updated information now. I'm sure they're busy with production and marketing but I'll pass on this suggestion. Ha en brrrrraaaa vinter. I'm still bummed I missed the Herc Boogie! Next time. ~Kim Griffin Vigil USA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #127 September 29, 2004 Hello Kim, there is a question which has been asked on teh french wuza.net forum concerning the pockets for the AAD's in the rigs. Apparently as I understood, Vigil has not provided pockets adapted for their product yet, and the ones used are the ones from Airtec, which basically are "designed" for the Cypres. Technically it can be done, and it is done... But "legally" can it be done ?? does the FAA approve that ?? www.wuza.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7001scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #128 September 29, 2004 I'd guess the FAA wouldn't have much to say about installing Vigils in Cypres set-ups. Riggers are charged with ensuring compatibility when assembling components. We don't give it a a second thought when we assemble Smart reserves in containers which are approved based on testing with PD reservers. Installing a Vigil in a Cypres-ready rig is not a legal problem. The freebag accepts compatible reserves; the Cypres set-up accepts compatible AADs, including Vigils. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
schwede 0 #129 September 29, 2004 Still no word from the military about the next Herc Boogie.. But we had a blast this time with over 1200 people visiting us... (626 jumpers). U hang in there Kim, U'll do fine.. And Yr boyfriend is a friendly bloke..Schwede "Das Leben ist schön, nicht immer aber immer öfter" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #130 September 29, 2004 Quote But "legally" can it be done ?? does the FAA approve that ?? The only legal requirement that the FAA mandates for AAD's is that they be maintained in accordance with their manufactuer's directives. The only time there would be a compatibality legal issue would be if a rigger installed an AAD on a rig that the AAD's manufactuer had said it was not compatiable with, and in that case the fault would lie on the rigger. That's the US angle, YMMV if the rigger's liscense is from another country. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Popovitch 0 #131 September 30, 2004 Have a look on www.vigil.aero Latest news.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbla4024 0 #132 September 30, 2004 www.vigil.aero Fido Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
schwede 0 #133 October 1, 2004 Well, thats nice to see them active on the commercial side but what is going on the technical side?? Why is Vigil still banned in most european countries?? Have they for example answered the Swedish safety committee and made the changes required or even answered the questions? Would love to see more technical input on the site.. and why not state all the countries that are today approving the use of Vigil??? I love competition in this side.. The sport can only continue to develope with competition...Schwede "Das Leben ist schön, nicht immer aber immer öfter" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #134 October 1, 2004 Quote Why is Vigil still banned in most european countries?? can you say which ??scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Popovitch 0 #135 October 1, 2004 Strange.... There is only one i hear is: Sweden. Blue skies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
schwede 0 #136 October 6, 2004 What I have heard; Sweden, Norway, Germany, Austria among others...Or have you more up to date info...Schwede "Das Leben ist schön, nicht immer aber immer öfter" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4XTTTOM 0 #137 October 6, 2004 Hello you guys out there, we are not banned in Europe. We having a discussion with the swedisch federation to be legal in sweden. In the rest of europe and other countries we are legal. for more info tom@vigil.aero or visit our website at www.vigil.aero cu TomGeorge Diotme Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badlock 0 #138 October 7, 2004 QuoteHello you guys out there, we are not banned in Europe. We having a discussion with the swedisch federation to be legal in sweden. In the rest of europe and other countries we are legal. Sorry Tom, but you should know, what you say about this point: Vigil is banned in germany by technical reasons since 21th of september, here is the official bulletin of the german parachuting association: http://www.prueferverband.de/Sicherheit/TM-SB/Technik-Info%20Aussetzung%20Musterpr%fcfung%20VIGIL%2029092004.pdf The bulletin ends with the words: "Kopie an Advanced Aerospace Designs nv/sa. (Beligen)", which means in english: "Advanced Aerospace Designs nv/sa. (Belgium) got a copy" Don't be a Lutz! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
schwede 0 #139 October 8, 2004 Badlock is right... You've recieved the letter from Germany too... So what is the problem...It is better to be open about that you have technical difficulties and also to be honest about your situation..instead of coming out with statements that are not true.. THAT will only hurt you and the confidence in your products.. I think I am not the only one that want to see a competetive market in AAD's, but also the complete skydiving community... So be honest, solve your problems and you will see that we will buy it when the time comes... And the remarks that the german technical committee had.. they are interesting..and scary...Schwede "Das Leben ist schön, nicht immer aber immer öfter" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4XTTTOM 0 #140 October 8, 2004 I am sorry, but we did not received this letter. this morning we had contact with the German technical director. The contact is due to you sending us this information. We have been at the worldmeet in Croatia and nobody from the German board told us that we are banned in their Country. Could somebody explain that to me. I think to have a good and open communication we have to play the game fair. But ok as it is right now we are banned and we will try to solve the problem with the German techbical direktor. All the things mentioned in the bulletin are not right. So give us time and we will bring out what the problem was or wasn't. Keep in touch TomGeorge Diotme Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #141 October 8, 2004 Every time I read this thread, I'm feeling very happy I jump CYPRES 1&2 As an aerospace design engineer I'm more happy with airtec ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4XTTTOM 0 #142 October 8, 2004 Hi Ton, Good for you that you are happy with your Cypres. I jumped the cypres for 12 years. So it must be good but i am in for innovations and VIGIL brings me that But Ton where is the tread???? Greetz TomGeorge Diotme Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #143 October 11, 2004 Met deze "THREAD" bedoel ik discussie, niet gevaar I'm sorry for you but I jump mostly in germany. With a vigil eguipped rig I would be GROUNDED right now, for technical reasons. For your information, In the beginning of this year I did a little investigation for a DZ which had to buy a couple of new AAD's. The answers I got from your company really scared me. No technical answers, only commercial. Like Q: Did you use aerospace-approved components: A: You do not want to pay the price of those components. Q: Which aerospace spec did you use to qualify the unit: A: We did some automotive tests Note: The automotive environment is much less severe than the aerospace environment. (I say this as an aerospace engineer) Uptill now I gave the DZ the right decision, concidering the "static-electricity" issue (No aerospace specs required for qualification?) and lately the grounding due to technical problems. In germany all aerospace equipment shall comply to certain technical rules. This will be judged pure technical. By the way do Sweden and Austria allow the vigil? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
schwede 0 #144 October 11, 2004 What I for certain know is that here in Sweden it is not allowed to be used. They have to many deficits and continue avoiding to address the technical issues which our Technical & Safety Board have raised. In Austria I do also believe it is not allowed to be used..According the information that I have... But It would be interesting to know which countries have approved this unit to be used, so far...Schwede "Das Leben ist schön, nicht immer aber immer öfter" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4XTTTOM 0 #145 October 12, 2004 Hi Skydiverton and Schwede, So far there is only sweden, as far as we know we are still approved and legal in Germany. Untill yesterday (2004-10-11) we did not receive an official bulletin from the German board. We know because we also read the FORUM. So if you know CHRIS BUSS from the German Technik Referat plaese contact him. Untill now the companies in Germany like PERF. Variable and Paratec did not know about this. I think there has been no communication between people and it put us in the bad spot. Concerning your question about technique, yes i am only doing the commercial site of VIGIL. About the technique i have to admit, that is not really my thing. BUT i can tell you if you call and ask for information we will give it to you. We have nothing to hide, we can give you a full factory visit where you can talk with all the people of the production and the engineering people. They will answer all your questions. And to be really honnest i think if you go on facts and do some effort to get to bottom of our product you will see, it is a verry good product. I also think that the people should communicate open to us not to go on rumours. Of course ther will always be pro and contras. Just like in any other bussines Cu you and take care TomGeorge Diotme Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #146 October 12, 2004 Quote Concerning your question about technique, yes i am only doing the commercial site of VIGIL. That is exactely the problem with the vigil. A lot of effort on the commercial side instead of the technical problems Tom, Kijk even op de onderstaande website of open de attachment http://dfv.sci-network.net/ groeten Ton ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4XTTTOM 0 #147 October 12, 2004 Ik denk dat je echt wel niet goed op de hoogte bent. All problems we had in the past have been solved with to most attention. At the military worldmeet we have giving to everybody who wanted all technical details because. Our engineer did demonstrations in a presurecabin. We also have been at the worldmeet in Croatia and people have been aswered all their questions. Do you want to read a manual of 5000 pages. Do you want to see diagrams of all droptest. You can no problem. No other AAD company is as open as we are. Why do you think the best teams in the world have choosen VIGIL as an AAD. Do not tell me because they got them for free, there are a lot of other reasons than that. Take the time to come to us like all those people did. We will be in Teuge on October 30. So you are welcome. October 23 we are in Zwartberg. You are invited. Is it not strange that the letter is on October 1 and we did not received it by yesterday. So if you want all your questions answered please contact AAD-VIGIL in Brussels It would be a pleasure. Have a great day TomGeorge Diotme Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #148 October 12, 2004 Since this isn't Stammtisch (or a dutch speaking forum) I took the liberty to translate the core part of your attachment for those poor deprived souls that only speak English... Quote "In december 2003 the openingdevice VIGIL from the belgian manufacturer AAD nv/sa received its DFV certification. The device was certified by the DFV without practical tests, only with the paperwork, testreports and manual supplied by the manufacturer. After almost a year of practical use in Germany doubt has risen about the functionality of the device and the correctness of the manufacturers claims. There upon AAD nv/sa was summoned by the DFV to remove those doubts and repair apparent weaknesses in the device . Until the final clarification by the manufacturer of the open questions we feel that we are forced to revoke the certification of the device, effective immediately. Until then, these devices are no longer allowed in Germany..." Seems like Chris Buss wants to have a word with Tom also - maybe he should travel to Germany in stead of Teuge (Holland)... OTOH when I read that one of their objections has to do with the fact that you can easily build the VIGIL in any cypres ready container (and VIGIL should have contacted all manufacturers in the world to get their approval) I have doubts of my own about the independence of the German riggers. He guys - it is a real industry, complete with jungle rules and vested interests. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specnaz007 0 #149 October 12, 2004 QuoteOTOH when I read that one of their objections has to do with the fact that you can... True Peter but also: Quote1. Information from Texel (sea level); several Vigils could not be switched on with high air pressure (and thus best skydiving weather). The advice of the manufacturer to adjust the altitude with 50 meter (60 feet) is no solution. –at what altitude will it activate? Many of the world’s best known DZs are at or below sea level. Quote2. The protection against humidity of all kind is unsatisfactory (Uncontrolled activation after limited contact with water) See earlier discussion in this forum Quote3. The tolerance of ± 80 meter (260 feet) came during a test in Sweden clearly above this already largely measured tolerance. Put this on top of a 50 meter (60 feet) adjustment. This could mean an activation of 130 meter (320 feet) above the activation altitude of 270 meter (890 feet). This is a tolerance of 48%! Bear in mind that I did not even took into consideration that the tolerance of 80 meter might be even more (according to the Swedes). Garik Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #150 October 12, 2004 QuotePut this on top of a 50 meter (60 feet) adjustment. This could mean an activation of 130 meter (320 feet) above the activation altitude of 270 meter (890 feet). This is a tolerance of 48%! Actually 50 meters is 160 feet.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
