Andy9o8 2 #26 March 7, 2011 Quote Quote Quote ....and a good reason to practice landing with rears only. not saying play with it up high; but i still think it's a BAD idea for you AND me to take that down to the ground.. just expressing my concerns! Why should we not practice landing with rears? It is on BillVon's downsizing checklist and I have done this on every canopy I have jumped more that once or twice so far. You misunderstood him. He wasn't talking about landing a perfectly-functioning canopy with rears for practice. He was talking about the idea of landing a less-than-perfectly (i.e., slightly malfunctioned) canopy, which cannot be properly flared with brakes, on rears. Obviously, the prudence (or lack thereof) of doing that may vary with a canopy pilot's experience. And in that context, I think his word of caution is appropriate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #27 March 7, 2011 Quote You misunderstood him. He wasn't talking about landing a perfectly-functioning canopy with rears for practice. He was talking about the idea of landing a less-than-perfectly (i.e., slightly malfunctioned) canopy, which cannot be properly flared with brakes, on rears. Obviously, the prudence (or lack thereof) of doing that may vary with a canopy pilot's experience. And in that context, I think his word of caution is appropriate. I don't think I misunderstood him at all. Here is the reasoning from BillVon's downsizing checklist: Quote7. Land with rear risers. Knowing how to land with rear risers can help you deal with a canopy problem like a broken or stuck brake line, and can help you make a better land/cutaway decision when you do have such a problem. It is quite clear that the intention of practicing this skill is to deal with a problem, particularly those involving brake lines."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #28 March 7, 2011 QuoteQuote You misunderstood him. He wasn't talking about landing a perfectly-functioning canopy with rears for practice. He was talking about the idea of landing a less-than-perfectly (i.e., slightly malfunctioned) canopy, which cannot be properly flared with brakes, on rears. Obviously, the prudence (or lack thereof) of doing that may vary with a canopy pilot's experience. And in that context, I think his word of caution is appropriate. I don't think I misunderstood him at all. Here is the reasoning from BillVon's downsizing checklist: Quote7. Land with rear risers. Knowing how to land with rear risers can help you deal with a canopy problem like a broken or stuck brake line, and can help you make a better land/cutaway decision when you do have such a problem. It is quite clear that the intention of practicing this skill is to deal with a problem, particularly those involving brake lines. Uh, I think it's obvious from context that Bill's recommendation wasn't to land a slightly-malfunctioned canopy with rears, it was to land a well-functioning canopy with rears. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #29 March 7, 2011 Quote Uh, I think it's obvious from context that Bill's recommendation wasn't to land a slightly-malfunctioned canopy with rears, it was to land a well-functioning canopy with rears. Ok - let's go back to what I originally said: Quote....and a good reason to practice landing with rears only. I understand what you (and BillVon) are saying. I am not saying that the OP should have landed on the rears in this case. I am saying that jumpers should practice this skill (with a good canopy) to give an extra option in a mal involving steering lines. V-B's reply said it was a bad idea for us (him and me) to land a canopy like this. I disagree and was citing BillVon's checklist to support my view."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #30 March 7, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote....and a good reason to practice landing with rears only. You have a reserve for a good reason. You don't have to land any ball of sh1t. But reserves also malfunction. Landing a canopy on the rears is a useful skill to have and can avoid the need to use your last chance to live. Better to be safe than sorry. None would question why have you cut that mess away. I'm not a test pilot and I don't do mid-air rigging either, if I have any doubt I go for plan B. I wouldn't jump if I don't trust my reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #31 March 7, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote You misunderstood him. He wasn't talking about landing a perfectly-functioning canopy with rears for practice. He was talking about the idea of landing a less-than-perfectly (i.e., slightly malfunctioned) canopy, which cannot be properly flared with brakes, on rears. Obviously, the prudence (or lack thereof) of doing that may vary with a canopy pilot's experience. And in that context, I think his word of caution is appropriate. I don't think I misunderstood him at all. Here is the reasoning from BillVon's downsizing checklist: Quote7. Land with rear risers. Knowing how to land with rear risers can help you deal with a canopy problem like a broken or stuck brake line, and can help you make a better land/cutaway decision when you do have such a problem. It is quite clear that the intention of practicing this skill is to deal with a problem, particularly those involving brake lines. Uh, I think it's obvious from context that Bill's recommendation wasn't to land a slightly-malfunctioned canopy with rears, it was to land a well-functioning canopy with rears. just to make myself clear; i think it's a bad idea either way, that is if you dont have A LOT of experience.. and have your swoops diealed in pretty good so far.. VERY easy to stall that way! or not flare enough.. either way, i think it's something that only very experienced jumper should be doing..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #32 March 7, 2011 Quote just to make myself clear; i think it's a bad idea either way, that is if you dont have A LOT of experience.. and have your swoops diealed in pretty good so far.. VERY easy to stall that way! or not flare enough.. either way, i think it's something that only very experienced jumper should be doing.. We are talking about different things here. You are talking about using rears to extend a HP landing (if I understand you correctly). I am talking about practicing landing with rears only on a straight in approach. Maybe that is where the confusion arose."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #33 March 7, 2011 QuoteQuote just to make myself clear; i think it's a bad idea either way, that is if you dont have A LOT of experience.. and have your swoops diealed in pretty good so far.. VERY easy to stall that way! or not flare enough.. either way, i think it's something that only very experienced jumper should be doing.. We are talking about different things here. You are talking about using rears to extend a HP landing (if I understand you correctly). I am talking about practicing landing with rears only on a straight in approach. Maybe that is where the confusion arose. even that i think is, at least in my opinion, more than questionable..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #34 March 7, 2011 Fair enough, man. If you're not comfortable, don't try it."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #35 March 7, 2011 if the flip thru happens below the slider you can either front flip or back flip thru the risers under canopy. Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #36 March 7, 2011 Quote if the flip thru happens below the slider you can either front flip or back flip thru the risers under canopy. Does this work?Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #37 March 7, 2011 Quote Quote if the flip thru happens below the slider you can either front flip or back flip thru the risers under canopy. Does this work? dude, if the bone of humour was stuck up your ass, would you "feel" it!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #38 March 7, 2011 Quote Quote if the flip thru happens below the slider you can either front flip or back flip thru the risers under canopy. Does this work? In theory it should but as mentioned up-thread, I am fairly sure this has led to at least one incident and I certainly wouldn't recommend it. Imagine what would happen if you got a foot tangled in the lines and were hanging upside down. Your situation just got a lot worse. I don't think stayhigh would either, judging by the "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #39 March 7, 2011 Quote if the flip thru happens below the slider you can either front flip or back flip thru the risers under canopy. I watched a buddy do the back flip to remove a flip through, on a slower more docile canopy. But it is one of those things that one doesn't recommend people to do unless they have really thought it through... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #40 March 7, 2011 Video, please! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
llloyd 0 #41 March 7, 2011 Quotejust to make myself clear; i think it's a bad idea either way, that is if you dont have A LOT of experience.. and have your swoops diealed in pretty good so far.. VERY easy to stall that way! or not flare enough.. either way, i think it's something that only very experienced jumper should be doing.. I did the Brian Vacher safe flight school course last year. Jump 10 included "landing on rear risers". His courses are aimed at anyone from 20 jumps up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #42 March 7, 2011 QuoteQuotejust to make myself clear; i think it's a bad idea either way, that is if you dont have A LOT of experience.. and have your swoops diealed in pretty good so far.. VERY easy to stall that way! or not flare enough.. either way, i think it's something that only very experienced jumper should be doing.. I did the Brian Vacher safe flight school course last year. Jump 10 included "landing on rear risers". His courses are aimed at anyone from 20 jumps up. and just to be an ass, his courses have the reputation that 2 or 3 out of 20 end up hurting themselves..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #43 March 7, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotejust to make myself clear; i think it's a bad idea either way, that is if you dont have A LOT of experience.. and have your swoops diealed in pretty good so far.. VERY easy to stall that way! or not flare enough.. either way, i think it's something that only very experienced jumper should be doing.. I did the Brian Vacher safe flight school course last year. Jump 10 included "landing on rear risers". His courses are aimed at anyone from 20 jumps up. and just to be an ass, his courses have the reputation that 2 or 3 out of 20 end up hurting themselves.. So now you know better than a member of the PD Factory Team?"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #44 March 7, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotejust to make myself clear; i think it's a bad idea either way, that is if you dont have A LOT of experience.. and have your swoops diealed in pretty good so far.. VERY easy to stall that way! or not flare enough.. either way, i think it's something that only very experienced jumper should be doing.. I did the Brian Vacher safe flight school course last year. Jump 10 included "landing on rear risers". His courses are aimed at anyone from 20 jumps up. and just to be an ass, his courses have the reputation that 2 or 3 out of 20 end up hurting themselves.. So now you know better than a member of the PD Factory Team? of course not; it's just the typical response you get around here for asking about those courses..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #45 March 7, 2011 I think most people on here would be very supportive of canopy control courses."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liftedtitan 0 #46 March 7, 2011 Quote Video, please! maybe it was this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFSivezl80EMoriuntur omnes, sed non omnes vixerunt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #47 March 7, 2011 QuoteI think most people on here would be very supportive of canopy control courses. so am i! but you can put people at additonal risk, or you can do a safer approach. not saying brian was "unsafe"; all i said was his course do have a "reputation". there's other people around here that also do such courses. and they dont have such reputation..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #48 March 8, 2011 Re: intentional backflip through lines to fix flip through Quote Video, please! Sorry, didn't have the camera rolling on that hop and pop exit. But I just got email back from him where he states, "I remember packing it saying there is a flip through in it and I didn't care cause I would fix it in the air." And he was right. (Yeah, "don't try this at home kids". Let's just say he knows what he's doing. He was under a double keel Paradactyl and I was under a ParaCommander at the time.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #49 March 8, 2011 Quote "don't try this at home kids" I was planning to try it at the dropzone. I don't live there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #50 March 8, 2011 Quote Quote if the flip thru happens below the slider you can either front flip or back flip thru the risers under canopy. I watched a buddy do the back flip to remove a flip through, on a slower more docile canopy. But it is one of those things that one doesn't recommend people to do unless they have really thought it through... I saw someone do it once too...snagged the reserve handle. THAT'LL learn ya! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
