freeflysteve 0 #26 February 21, 2011 "Hitting the water surface is undoubtedly more forgiving than hitting the grass." Water can be very unforgiving so I cannot agree with your statement. SteveSwooping, huh? I love that stuff ... all the flashing lights and wailing sirens ... it's very exciting! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #27 February 21, 2011 Quote"Hitting the water surface is undoubtedly more forgiving than hitting the grass." Water can be very unforgiving so I cannot agree with your statement. Indeed it can. At higher speeds, water can hurt you just like earth. But at lesser speeds, given a choice between water or earth, which is most likely to cause more severe injuries? Answer: Earth. Would you rather belly-flop off a high dive board onto the ground, or into water? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 14 #28 February 21, 2011 Quote Water can be very unforgiving so I cannot agree with your statement. Entitled to your opinion, but I think you should re-think your agreement. The previous statement was that water was, "more forgiving", not that it was particularly nice. I think that you would be hard pressed to find impact conditions with water which would not be, "more forgiving", than those of dry land. Sure, if you hit the water at high speed, the impact may be called, "unforgiving", but still better than dirt. Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godfrog 2 #29 February 22, 2011 Water at high speed is very unforgiving! Water is not compressable. Fire a bullet into water and see how far it doesn't go.Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #30 February 23, 2011 QuoteWater at high speed is very unforgiving! Water is not compressable. Fire a bullet into water and see how far it doesn't go. I guarantee it'll go farther than in dirt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #31 February 23, 2011 QuoteWater at high speed is very unforgiving! Water is not compressable. Fire a bullet into water and see how far it doesn't go. Water IS comperssable, which is why it's not used in hydraulic systems. Hydraulic fluid is not compressable, and transmits motion one-for-one through hydraulic lines. If you have water in your car's brake system, the brake pedal will be spongy, because the water compresses. Fire a bullet into both water and dirt, and water will do far less damage to the bullet. Forensic firearm testers shoot bullets into a water tank so that they can recover the unblemished bullet and look at the barrel striation, and compare them with other bullets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TampaPete 48 #32 February 23, 2011 Water is not compressible. It is not used in your breaks because it causes corrosion and turns to steam under high temperature. Steam is compressible. That is why your breaks are mushy when they have water in the lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #33 February 23, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Compressibility The best part about this is that a pissing match is like 90% water. Can we move on? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #34 February 23, 2011 QuoteWater is not compressible. It is not used in your breaks because it causes corrosion and turns to steam under high temperature. Steam is compressible. That is why your breaks are mushy when they have water in the lines. There is no such thing as an incompressible fluid, or solid for that matter. There are simply fluids (and solids) with very high values of their bulk modulus which means their compressibility is very small, but NOT zero..... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #35 February 23, 2011 QuoteWater is not compressible. It is not used in your breaks because it causes corrosion and turns to steam under high temperature. Steam is compressible. That is why your breaks are mushy when they have water in the lines. Corrosion is solved by something like anti-freeze, which also raises the boiling point, which is why water is used in radiators. But not hydraulic lines. Water IS compressable, but not by much. Even in the deep ocean, the water at the bottom is only about 2% more dense than surface water. Perhaps we are using the incorrect term here. It's not so much compressability, but rather displacement that we should be talking about. Landing a parachute on water is where displacement comes in. If you smack the water, the water is displaced away from the center of impact, causing a cushioning effect of the impact. The displaced water decelerates the body over time and distance. Not so with earth, with whom impacts tend to be very quick and instantaneous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 800 #36 February 23, 2011 The ground will also displace. Unfortunately, I've seen it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #37 February 23, 2011 Depends on the angle of impact. In some cases, dirt (especially dirt with wet grass) is actually better than water; the jumper slides instead of cartwheeling at high speeds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #38 February 23, 2011 Quote Depends on the angle of impact. In some cases, dirt (especially dirt with wet grass) is actually better than water; the jumper slides instead of cartwheeling at high speeds. Back during my boat racing days I've more than once seen someone pass me while skipping across the water flopping around like a rag doll. ...no boat ... just the driver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #39 February 23, 2011 QuoteThe ground will also displace. Which displaces more: water or earth? If you descending with both canopies entangled with each other, heading for a hard landing, would you rather be over water or earth? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 474 #40 February 23, 2011 QuoteQuoteThe ground will also displace. Which displaces more: water or earth? If you descending with both canopies entangled with each other, heading for a hard landing, would you rather be over water or earth? Earth is to much of a blanket statement. Granted in Texas the dirt is probably has hard as concrete for the most part. But a ploughed field that is highly aerated and churned up can be very soft for 2 or 3 feet. I suspect you can get dirt that is more forgiving than water. Snow is suppossed to be pretty good to - isn't that what the air-hostess survived falling into? I have seen someone hook a 100sq foot canopy into a ploughed field and limp away from it - not necessarily saying that he wouldn't have done the same with water.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyper 0 #41 February 23, 2011 Air hostes survived the fall (without a chute) from 30.000ft... but she was in the plane´s tail which broke off from the planes body upon the bomb exploded on board. The tail (and hostess) fall on the (1)trees which were on the (2) slope which slowed down the speed of impact significantly... IMHO from a certain trashold of speed and angle, water is as hard as soil... for lower speeds I´d choose water http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGperYQxYL8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #42 February 27, 2011 As John said all thing are compressible. But it takes 33,000 psi to compress water a measurable amount. At speed it is like concrete. But only for an instant, once surface tension is broken it is not bad. But that on instant will ruin your day. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
