FlyBoard new flying machine

[piisfish 140]

I don't know if it is true, or a good hoax, but this thing is VERY impressive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEDrMriKsFM

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Malta_Dog 0]

I was skeptic at first too, but an hoax would be a very bad PR stunt for the company (Zapata Racing).


And other videos, recorded by third parties during tests, are emerging:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLXjAt26xB8


Edit: I forgot to add that this is beyond awesome!

All your dropzone are belong to us!!!!111!

[ryoder 1,590]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQGd5wdx9lg&t=4m30s

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[quade 4]

I'm unclear what type of engine puts out that much thrust in that small of a package. It looks like he might be wearing a fuel tank on his back with supply hose running down along left leg.

However, it still looks fake as F.

Zapata does nice work with their hydraulic system and I have no doubt they can fly people with that. I just don't see how they're possibly moving the amount of air required to do something like this.

Edited to add

I suppose you could use four of these, but I still think that's a way bigger package than what we're seeing in the video.

http://www.jetcatusa.com/rc-turbines/turbine-details/p200-sx/

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SethInMI 174]

reading a few of the comments on the videos, turbines are available with the packaging and thrust required. check out www.amtjets.com. Watching the craft fly over the camera at the end of the video, it looks like 4 circular openings on the bottom? The amt titan has 80lb thrust, so 4 of them would work. But the titan sells for over 10k Euro apiece.

Basically this is probably $50k in parts.

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[quade 4]

SethInMI

The amt titan has 80lb thrust, so 4 of them would work. But the titan sells for over 10k Euro apiece.

Basically this is probably $50k in parts.

Yes, but still a WAY bigger package than what is being shown in the video.

I have no doubts a device can be put together from off the shelf parts. Not the issue. The issue is the size of the device being shown in the video vs anything currently on the shelf.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SethInMI 174]

WAY bigger. No.

The titan has a diameter of 5.8", so four turbines in a cube would be about a foot square. That is about the spacing of the raised box he has between his feet, and it is clear the height of the box is about the 15" length of the titan.

I'm not saying that the titan is what is being used, but it is reasonable.

And not showing the takeoff and landings in one clean shot each screams fake. Not saying it is fake, but why...

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

I tend to be skeptical of this sort of thing.

Actual flight is pretty hard.

Generating lift is only one part of it.

Controlling it is the other.

Short of a very strong gyroscope built into it (where would it be?), how does it stay stable? The static instability of this thing would be a nightmare. Think the ball type balance board with virtually no friction.

Some might suggest a computer control on the throttles, but if it's a turbine engined craft, the throttle lag would eliminate that.

It looks, on the face of it, to be a scaled down version of the "Flying Bedstead" that they used to train for landing the Lunar Module during the Apollo missions. That thing was extremely difficult to fly and had a whole bunch of crashes.

How is this guy controlling it? Body movement? Balance? I'm not seeing any real inputs. He looks like he's just standing there (more accurately, hanging there).

I'm also not really seeing any good indications of the thrust required. Just a bit of "heat shimmer" below it. Even scale model helicopters produce a good amount of rotor downwash.

I could certainly be wrong, but it looks far more to me like he's hanging from a crane (that's been digitally removed). Not really flying.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[quade 4]

SethInMI

The titan has a diameter of 5.8", so four turbines in a cube would be about a foot square.

It's not just the diameter, but also the height. Look at it again.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SethInMI 174]

I agree control is the hard problem. I'm not a jet expert, but I would think some sort of thrust vectoring would be needed, maybe just a vane in the exhaust flow of each turbine?

He apparently is controlling it with a wireless? handheld controller.

There is quite a bit of water spray indicating downwash.

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[quade 4]

SethInMI

I agree control is the hard problem. I'm not a jet expert, but I would think some sort of thrust vectoring would be needed, maybe just a vane in the exhaust flow of each turbine?

He apparently is controlling it with a wireless? handheld controller.

There is quite a bit of water spray indicating downwash.

The hand controller is about the same size and shape as they use with their water product.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCU-qcHTI_U

The guy "flying" (let's assume he flying and not faking it) is actually skilled enough with flying similar type devices that's not a show stopper for me. THE show stopper is the size of the product. To my eye it looks far too small to house engines of the appropriate thrust.

On the other hand, the video would be trivial to fake using his water product.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[sirenoremac 0]

For control, the normal water based flyboards are completely controlled by balance. This guy invented those, so one would assume that he is pretty dang good at balancing and control on top of a column of otherwise uncontrolled thrust.

Thrust vectoring would make some sense, but I think it is unlikely. The control he is using looks very similar to the electronic controls they have for their water based boards, which is purely a thrust controller.

One of the third party videos (https://www.facebook.com/mastersofdirt/videos/10154097971536796/) has a very clean shot of the entire takeoff. On the whole, I am not 100% convinced, but I'm very much leaning towards it being real.

[NewGuy2005 53]

Could he be using rockets?

[quade 4]

NewGuy2005

Could he be using rockets?

No. Categorically, no.

What you're hearing is the sound of a jet. Rockets are also extraordinarily difficult to throttle. We're talking SpaceX levels of engineering required for that kind of control on a rocket.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DanG 1]

Everything is cooler with rockets.

I doubt it. To have the kind of flight time and thrust control the video purports to show, I think they'd need to be using liquid fueled rocket engines, which are not trivial to make and control. It might be possible with low pressure solids (also technically challenging), but then thrust control gets a lot harder.

- Dan G

[billvon 3,070]

Nothing impossible about it. It's already been done with fans (i.e. an N-rotor) and the training path exists for balance-based control (i.e. water based flyboards.) And the engines required for this exist in the RC word.

[Malta_Dog 0]

vid with a landing at the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLXjAt26xB8

I could be wrong, but I also think that this is real:

- as Billvon said, engines are available in the RC world
- configuration makes sense: engines are mounted in the flyboard, throttle control in hand, fuel in a backpack, control by balance just like water-fed flyboards
- from an unknown source, hoax would not be damaging. But from a company making those water-fed flyboards, an hoax would only have negative results.


Now, this device has strong limitations: any engine failure (probability is multiplied by # of engines) and it will go down fast, so it is limited to fly low over water deep enough to cushion a fall + drowning risk with all this weight attached to pilot.

I also think that the wireless controller is an added risk, mostly from RF interference. As there is already a fuel line connecting the backpack to the board, a control wire connecting the throttle to the board wouldn't pose any more problems.

All your dropzone are belong to us!!!!111!

[377 22]

I could be wrong, but I think it is real. Here is how you could do it

4 each JetCat model P200RX turbines each 52lbsf of thrust (210 lbsf total) and each turbine weighing 5.6 lbs, the total dry weight of the thrusters is 22.4 lbs, leaving about 190 lbs for pilot+fuel+clothing and etc. hardware.

http://www.jetcatusa.com/rc-turbines/turbine-details/p200-sx/

Short flight times though. Add more fuel, need more thrust, makes it even heavier, you just can't easily engineer your way out of the range limiting corner. The old Bell peroxide rocket "Jet Packs" had the same problem.


377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[quade 4]

This just in...

http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/15/11439798/franky-zapata-racing-jet-powered-flying-hoverboard-interview

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

I think Frankie Z is blowing a little smoke to make this seem more complex than it really is while he moves to get patent protection. I'd be willing to bet that there are no in-flight moveable thrust vectoring nozzles.

My strong hunch is that the platform draws its stability from the precession forces of the 4 turbines rotating at the same time at 100k RPM. It is basically a giant 'top' so it is inherently stable. The only problem is the tangential forces that would make it spin in a cyclic catenary fashion, and that is counteracted by the two side turbines that push in the opposite direction. Flight attitude is effected by kinesthetic movement of his body, similar to the Hiller platform

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3FS3D1rCos .

None of this tech puffery detracts from the stunning accomplishment of Mr. Z and his team. BRAVO!

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[ryoder 1,590]

Frankie needs to get together with Yves Rossy;
Imagine taking/landing vertically, but having a wing that lets you fly like Rossy.
And with that much thrust in horizontal flight...DAYUM!!!

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

377

I could be wrong, but I think it is real. Here is how you could do it

4 each JetCat model P200RX turbines each 52lbsf of thrust (210 lbsf total) and each turbine weighing 5.6 lbs, the total dry weight of the thrusters is 22.4 lbs, leaving about 190 lbs for pilot+fuel+clothing and etc. hardware.

http://www.jetcatusa.com/rc-turbines/turbine-details/p200-sx/

Short flight times though. Add more fuel, need more thrust, makes it even heavier, you just can't easily engineer your way out of the range limiting corner. The old Bell peroxide rocket "Jet Packs" had the same problem.


377

Watching it, I think fuel would be the limiting factor. They don't show you a full flight, although they did claim that he was able to fly nearly 4 minutes on the thing if I read the text in the video correctly.

I'm also pretty sure he never reaches an altitude where that parachute would actually be useful if the thing craps out on him. But flying over water, I guess he'd probably survive if it did, anyway.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[377 22]

ryoder

Frankie needs to get together with Yves Rossy;
Imagine taking/landing vertically, but having a wing that lets you fly like Rossy.
And with that much thrust in horizontal flight...DAYUM!!!

Or you could just go whole hog: http://artnalls.com

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[billvon 3,070]

>My strong hunch is that the platform draws its stability from the precession
>forces of the 4 turbines rotating at the same time at 100k RPM.

My hunch is that it is no more stable than the water jet version of this thing.

[377 22]

From a friend who is a jet pack fanatic:

Jetcat P200-RX is rated at 24.7 fl oz per minute at full thrust of 52 lbsf. Then having 4 turbines would be 98.8 fl oz/minute or 0.77 gal/min. Since a gal of jet-A or kerosene weighs about 6.5 lbs, then to fly 5 minutes the pilot would need to carry 32.5 lbs of fuel.

Not very efficient and this is in part, because the turbines are single stage. The original jetpack of Bell Aerosystems using the Williams Research WR19 turbine weighed 49 lbs, put out 410 lbsf and consumed 64 fl oz/minute at full thrust. However it was a 2 stage turbine with a bypass fan.

Still, a remarkable engineering feat. So amazing to watch the video. When will we see tandems ?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.