how to pack my triathlon 175 to snival

[airborne82nd 0]

Hey i am buying a tri 175 brand new chute. i have jumped it 6 times and i love it . i am jumping it and making payments on it.

I pack it easy but it opens fast a little too fast, i need to pack a snival into it a bit. I jumped a tri 220 and tri 190 and i can make those open very soft.

is there anyway to pro pack the tri to open easy and snivel. now i get perfect openings as far as on heading no twists no end cell closure.

so i bury the nose and roll the tail 6 times = fast openings

i leave the nose normal and roll the tail 3 times = fast openings

so should i roll the nose?? and how do i do that and roll the tail??

or should i not roll th nose or bury it and only roll the tail once.

someone told me if i roll everything too much the chute wont open right and put me in a feet down attitude and increae my decent speed and thats when i get a fast opening.

can anyone help me on this???

i have 65 jumps plus 120 static lines 30 on ram air chutes
thannksssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RyanofOZ 0]

I am a newbie so take this and my 42 jumps of experiance as a disclaimer.

I was taught by my rigger to roll the nose to slow an opening. I have a Spectre so I have never needed to slow my opening down but I have done it anyway to see what it would do. After picking up the tail, I pulled the nose from between my legs. I counted 3 cells from the left, rolled them a few times then the 3 from the right, rolled them the same amount. Left the center cell unrolled and pushed them in the packjob and rolled the tail around them. This slowed the opening on my spectre a noticable amount.

I am sure my way of explaining this has much room to improve, but you get the basic idea. have a packer show you how to roll the nose next time at your DZ of an instructor.

Again, 42 jump wonder information, seek better advice.

Oz

[masterrig 1]

The method you mention, seems to work rather well. Just as long as the roled cells are not shoved into the center cell. Also, 4-way the slider and get a good 'scoop' in front of the cells. Also, check the owner's manual that came with the parachute for packing recommendations or contact the manufacturer and speak with one of their riggers.

Chuck

[Sonicfreefly 0]

A new Triathlon 150 I use to own also opened fast. I ended up rolling the nose by taking the three cells on one side of the center cell and rolling them inward 3-4 times and repeating the process for the other three cells on the other side of the center cell. The center cell I would push back into the pack job and make sure my slider was pulled out and inch or two past the rolled nose. I rolled the tail about 4-5 times. After the chute had a hundred jumps on it, I noticed that I had to roll the nose less.

[MarkM 0]

I think that's called split rolling the nose. Anyway, I got a Triathlon packing video from Aerodyne a couple years back and that's how they showed to pack the Tri, by split rolling the nose.

That's always given me soft openings.

[dunesurfer 0]

A buddy of mine Tried all suggestions found above and finally had his rigger add a slider with a "drag pocket" on it.... it slowed the slider drop enough to tailor his openings to his liking. BTW this is a tri 170 he jumps

[Beachbum 0]

That's really strange that Aerodyne suggests rolling the nose. A friend had her 175 (fairly close to new at the time) blow out on her when a packer rolled the nose on it. Aerodyne did honor the warranty, but according to her, said that rolling the nose they could consider the warranty invalidated. This took place several years ago ... I wonder if their viewpoint has changed (thus the video). Do you know the date the video was put out? I'm gonna have to see what I can find on their site ... will update on here if I have any luck.

I have a 160, and I get great openings with a pro pack. I was told by several people that rolling the nose on a Triathlon could get you slammed. I do roll the tail pretty good, and that gives me a nice snivel ... soft openings.

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[MarkM 0]

Not sure what the date is. The video is "Aerodyne Research Triathlon Packing Video" by Aerodyne Research Corp.

I probably bought it during the summer of 2000. That's when I got my first rig, which was used, and I collected all the docs I could on the components from each manufacturer.

[BadDog 0]

I used to psycho-pack my Triathlon and got sweet openings every time.

[airborne82nd 0]

i rolled the nose today twice split 3 cells and 3 cells and got slammed then i rolled the nose 4 times all 7 cells got slammed.

i rolled the nose 6-8 times and its doing better thank you all who answer these questions

thanks for giving your knowledge and time guys like me with 70 jumps learn alot here in the forums

thanks again everyone

chris

[thelem 0]

I tried loads of different things to slow down my Triathlon. Then someone advised me to change to micro-bungies. Since I did that my openings have been much better.

(does that read like one of those bad adverts to you?)

[Amazon 7]

When I pack my BIG ole Triathalon... I psycho pack it..
I do a standard Propack till I lay it down upside down...then open up the tail and roll the nose on each side all the way down to the A Lines.. and roll the center cell as well.. Then make sure the slider is ALL the way up into the canopy .
Next I fold the tail over it and roll that until its all very tight. All the lines remain in the center. Then I start at the top of the canopy I pull the bridle extension to the side and toll the whole canopy into a tight roll and stuff it into the D-bag with the flap on top of the canopy( reversed because of the flip when laying it down) and insert the rolled canopy. Once I shove it in I flip it over to get rid of the 180 degree line twist and stow the lines leaving about only 18" from the last stow to the top of the risers.

Voila.

Nice soft openings everytime but once.. when I was still doing about 200 MPH in a track.. that one hurt me and my canopy. But it also was not one of my pack jobs.. It was at a boogie and I was getting packers to do it for me so I could have fun in between jumps. 5 lines broke.. and one cell torn.
I do not recommend dumping in a track...

[steve1 5]

When I first got my new Hornet 170 it was slamming me on a regular basis. After a couple trips to the chiropractor for a messed up neck, a strained groin, and one bent finger from another hard openning, I started psycho packing. If anything my opennings are a little too snively now. It's a cinch to get the air out of the material and it goes into the bag nice. Everyone at my DZ thought I was nuts packing this way, but I love it. Most openings are soft and on heading. It never opens hard now...Steve1

[2shay 0]

dont worry about the nose so much worry about the slider. when you are pro packing pull the slider over the nose and quarter the slider like you normally would but keep the nose covered up by the slider. you can also pull the slider all the way through towards the nose. That was the suggestion made by a rigger and it helped to where i could get my triathlon 190 to snivel for as long as was neccesary.

feet and knees together AIRBORNE!!!

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[aubsmell 0]

I see you jump at skydive tampa, with Cliff Dobbson, he is the Triathlon Guru, he practically invented that canopy, or was at least there every step of the way. Ask Cliff to help you out, or borrow the packing video from him, I know he has a copy.

If I were going to make a suggestion, I would suggest packing it just ilke they do in the video. Turning in each of three cells on either side of the center cell. Pay close attention to haveing your slider grommets up against the slider stops, make sure you are using nice new small rubber bands, and your stoes are equal in size and about the length of your thumb.

Give me a call, of you have any questions. 813 891 6300

Take it easy-

Aubrey-

"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

[Beachbum 0]

It sounds like the video is different than the printed manual that came with mine. It does not mention or show anything about "turning in" any cells ... can someone give me a little explanation of just what that means?

thanks!

[nitrodan 0]

I had to chop my Tri 220 twice from broken lines due to hard openings once it blew 7 lines at once ripped 5 loose from the canopy. I talked with cliff and he told me not to roll the nose that that made it worse on a tri (I don't know why) instead to fold the nose just like you would roll it 3 and 3 but fold it in a 3 inch fold so that when you push it in it flat. I can't tell you why but it did help. I still sold it and got a spectre instead.

DAN SMITH
www.skydivewichita.com

[airborne82nd 0]

wow what happen it opened and slammed you?? and the lines broke??? how many lines need to break before you have to cut away???

was it a new 220????

man i am sorrry about that

obviously you have no problems with your new canopy thank GOD huh

yes cliff told me not to roll the nose either i dont understand why not i just really started to learn to pack ok and fast it was hard to learn to pack and i am highly inteligent but i was a complete idiot when it came to packing. it has taken me months to pack right and i still take hits
i am tough i can take the slamms but why would i want to huh and it just isnt fun

[blitzkrieg 0]

i know the original post is a little old, but... it sounds to me mainly that you have a problem with your line stows. but as you said you switched to micros, that will probably help a lot. also i know a few people who roll their nose 3 and 3, but i wouldn't recommend it as it can cause you to blow out the center cell. that's what "they" say anyway. also, don't over roll your tail... 4 times should be enough, otherwise the you'll get snivel snivel smack! as the canopy partially inflates fighting the tail and then sends the slider down in a hurry. just some thoughts from my experience. i've put a few on that canopy and had no probs.
~E

[DJL 235]

I see a lot of recommendations but no reasons for that voodoo.

What does rolling the nose do?
What does rolling the tail do?
The effect of different stows?
The effect of a larger slider?
The effect of the position of the slider?
What a psycho pack does?
Why the slider grommets should be tight against the stops?

On my Tri I got mixed results until I routinely began to expose the slider to the nose of the canopy. That way, it was the first thing to inflate and the result was smooth openings. But, I was still getting off heading openings. So, I quit rolling the tail. I had been doing that mostly to keep the canopy together for when I layed it down and to make sure the grommets were tight to the stops. Now, I have nothing but smooth, on heading openings.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Beachbum 0]

Ok ... first qualify this with "I'm SURE no expert" ... only 52 jumps (but 4 years in the making thanks to ear problems, then a year + off due to a collapsed lung) ... but lots of time at the dz and listening / reading and trying to learn ...

So ... someone will correct what I get wrong I hope!! (and fill in what I can't reply to) ... we'll see how well I've learned so far!!

Rolling the nose ... keeps it from catching air as quickly .. I think this slows the overall inflation process since inflation seems to happen from the center outward (watch your canopy inflate sometime if you don't already)

Rolling the tail ... slows the spreading of the canopy, so slows the inflation of the outer cells some

Stow length ... not at all sure on this one ... but I think longer stows make the deployment take a bit longer

Larger slider ... keeps it from coming down as quickly, so softens the opening (same with slider pockets) ... also covers some of the opening to the cells, so they don't inflate as rapidly (this also applies to the next question)

Position of the slider ... see 2nd part of above, ... and effects how soon in the opening how much of the slider is catching how much air

Psycho pack ... and slider to grommets ???

okay ... those with the real knowledge ... how'd I do??

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

OK... here's my experience on these questions (I'm a rigger, and i've been a professional packer for about 10 years). Keep in mind these are general answers, and some people find they have different results.

What does rolling the nose do?

slows down the opening, but excessive rolling may cause end cells to take longer to inflate. if you roll all cells at once (instead of 4 and 4 or 3 and 3) then it will slow it down even more, but will more likely result in an off-heading opening.

What does rolling the tail do?

slow down the opening very slightly... it also helps keep the packjob neater when you lay it down.

The effect of different stows?

tight bands and 2-3 inch stows will help prevent line-dump. Try to use proper sized bands instead of double-looping large bands.

The effect of a larger slider?

The larger the slider, the slower the opening, provided it is clover-leafed correctly.

The effect of the position of the slider?

If the slider is up against the grommets, it will catch more air, and do it's job better. the same applies to a proper clover-leaf. Also, if you make sure the part of the slider in "front" of the nose is really open, it can help it do it's job better as well.

What a psycho pack does?

never used it, but as far as I can tell, not much... psycho pack is just a method of getting the canopy in the bag, and things like the slider, nose, tail, ect are unchanged by the psycho method.

Why the slider grommets should be tight against the stops?

see above.

Hope this helps. Again, please remember that this is my own experience, and I have heard many other people say they don't see it this way. It's best to try different things and find what works for you. Packing is a very individual thing, both for different canopies and for different people. FYI, my standard pack on a Tri is 6 rolls of the nose into the center, a few on the tail, and make that slider as big as humanly possible.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[DJL 235]

Here's my discussion putting things in terms of overall deployment and canopy inflation time. I think canopy inflation time is the thing we should focus on. Everything else is just wasted. :

Quote

What does rolling the nose do?

slows down the opening, but excessive rolling may cause end cells to take longer to inflate. if you roll all cells at once (instead of 4 and 4 or 3 and 3) then it will slow it down even more, but will more likely result in an off-heading opening.

How does it slow down the canopy inflation? By hiding the material farther behind the slider? So why not just ensure that the slider is more exposed across the nose? Is this a matter of the different sizes of sliders? If you slow inflation just by exposing the slider the you can eliminate the off-heading problem.

Quote

What does rolling the tail do?

slow down the opening very slightly... it also helps keep the packjob neater when you lay it down.

How does it slow down the opening? I'd like to think of the opening in terms of overall time and inflation time. I would prefer to focus on inflation time. During this stage of deployment you are being put upright. You increase your speed and the result is that you're going faster during inflation. So, if you can lay the canopy on the ground and keep it together without rolling the tail so much (1-2 rolls) then you've accomplished your goal. What I do is to roll the tail just once or twice and as I lay it down I hold the rolled tail and the nose in my right hand and the slider tight to the grommets with the left. I use my elbows to hold the cocoon together.

Quote

The effect of different stows?

tight bands and 2-3 inch stows will help prevent line-dump. Try to use proper sized bands instead of double-looping large bands.

I use a 2" stow on the locking stow and make the rest of them as small as possible. I also leave about 2 ft of line free. If I end up at the last rubberband with what I think is too little line then I only single stow that line. I do this because I've read data confirming that nothing but the locking stows matter, since bag stripping is what you really care about. This has nothing to do with canopy inflation time and making the bands tight and stows long will only result in the bag bouncing and twisting, resulting in line twists.

Quote

The effect of a larger slider?

The larger the slider, the slower the opening, provided it is clover-leafed correctly.

The effect of the position of the slider?

If the slider is up against the grommets, it will catch more air, and do it's job better. the same applies to a proper clover-leaf. Also, if you make sure the part of the slider in "front" of the nose is really open, it can help it do it's job better as well.

What a psycho pack does?

never used it, but as far as I can tell, not much... psycho pack is just a method of getting the canopy in the bag, and things like the slider, nose, tail, ect are unchanged by the psycho method.

Why the slider grommets should be tight against the stops?

see above.

Hope this helps. Again, please remember that this is my own experience, and I have heard many other people say they don't see it this way. It's best to try different things and find what works for you. Packing is a very individual thing, both for different canopies and for different people. FYI, my standard pack on a Tri is 6 rolls of the nose into the center, a few on the tail, and make that slider as big as humanly possible.

Can't add anything much to what UD posted and I don't know a thing about psycho packs. What I meant with the question about slider position wasn't whether it was against the grommets but how much it's exposed to the airstream. I completely expose my slider to the nose. I know a girl who actually folds the front of the slider out of the way because she said that it takes too long to open, otherwise. But, we're talking about Tri's here.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Quote

How does it slow down the canopy inflation? By hiding the material farther behind the slider? So why not just ensure that the slider is more exposed across the nose? Is this a matter of the different sizes of sliders? If you slow inflation just by exposing the slider the you can eliminate the off-heading problem.

I've heard a lot of theories. The ones that makes sense to me are:
1) since the nose takes a fraction of a second to unroll, the whole canopy isn't inflating at the same time, slowing the opening.
2) basically what you said... it puts it futher back behind the slider.

I agree that if the slider is properly exposed across the nose, it will have the same effect, and on a lot of newer canopies (sabre 2, velocity, crossfire 2, spectre...) it's enough. It should be noted that most of those canopies have comparatively larger sliders, which enables you to do this. On older models, like the Tri, and my old-school Sabre, however, the slider may not be large enough to properly accomplish this properly. In those cases, I find I have the most luck doing BOTH. As for the off-heading thing, I don't roll all cells together on anything other than old F-111 canopies that open like a shotgun (Sharpchuters and Ravens come to mind).

Quote

How does it slow down the opening? I'd like to think of the opening in terms of overall time and inflation time. I would prefer to focus on inflation time. During this stage of deployment you are being put upright. You increase your speed and the result is that you're going faster during inflation. So, if you can lay the canopy on the ground and keep it together without rolling the tail so much (1-2 rolls) then you've accomplished your goal. What I do is to roll the tail just once or twice and as I lay it down I hold the rolled tail and the nose in my right hand and the slider tight to the grommets with the left. I use my elbows to hold the cocoon together.

Honestly, I don't really know. All I know is that if I don't roll the tail on certain canopies, they really crack open. Something else I have found is that I get extra slowless if I roll the tail both at the bottom (where everyone rolls it) and at the top (up by the slider). Intuitively, this should make the opening faster, because it prevents the slider from immediately catching air, but it works really well for me. Reasons?? Haven't a clue.

Quote

I've read data confirming that nothing but the locking stows matter, since bag stripping is what you really care about. This has nothing to do with canopy inflation time and making the bands tight and stows long will only result in the bag bouncing and twisting, resulting in line twists.

Locing stows are certainly the most important, but they ALL matter. loose line stows will not provide any resistance during deployment, which means the bag will be travelling faster when it finally hits the locking stows... it's just a less steady, less predictable opening. And yes, excessively tight stows, like those crappy black bands or double-stowing might cause line twists, hence my advice not to do so.

And again, this is just my advice based on how my own canopy reacts and how other people say their canopies open when I pack them. It doesn't always work for others... perfect example: I have a very neat packing style, and have to play games with my slider, tail, and nose to make my canopy open the way I want. On the other hand, I know at least a dozen people who will look you in the eye and swear that the only way to make their canopy open slowly is to pack it as messily as possible, and it works for them. So try different stuff, and find what works. When you've found it, stick with it.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[cruzlite 0]

I strongly advise investing in the packing tape from Aerodyne...
The tape I got was made before my Mk5 (2003)...

Not only did it take all the mystery out of pro-packing, but it's method produced perfect opennings.

Cliff is indeed "da man" when it comes to Triathlons,
but if you are like me, verbal & written pro-pack proceedures can be dificult to to recreate while packing...

GET THE TAPE!

D