RSL or No RSL? (Detached From: Wings Container Question)

[skyhighkiy 0]

I'm sorry I don't really have a price for wings cause I don't jump one! :)


but anyway, my comment is on the RSL. Just throwing something in there cause this has been an ongoing debate in my D.Z.

I won't wear an RSL because in the event of a spinning malfunction, there's no time to get stable, with this, you're almost guaranteed line twists on your reserve (who knows what this will bring) and if there happens to be a canopy collision, I can't cut away w/out my reserve deploying right away.

Many people I know wear them because there's really no chance of msising pulling your reserve because it's already comming out when you cut away, it's faster (or usually faster) than pulling both handles and if they are spinning tothe point they can't control themselves, adn they happen to get one hand in, allt hey need to pull is one handle.

I'm just throwing some thoughts out there, take what you will and leave what you will, blues! :)

BE THE BUDDHA!

[okalb 104]

Sorry but at 77 jumps you have no business giving advice on a safety device as important as an RSL. If you choose not to use one, that is your business. But a newbie giving safety advice to a newbie is just plain silly. At your level with the canopies that you are jumping there is absolutely no reason for you not to use an RSL, but that can be argued til the cows come home and obvioously you have already decided what you think is best for you.

Please think before you give people advice. What is even funnier to me is that you missed the real safety concern. Other people may disagree with this, but I am not crazy about the idea of a newbie buying a rig with a pillow reserve handle.

The greenies may have a problem with this post...if they do I appologize, but it needs to be said.

-OK

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[towerrat 0]

Thanks mr. Kalb, you beat me to it.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

[skymedic 0]

this was exactly my first concern. I can get over the not having an RSL thing. whatever different strokes for different folks. I just dont see it being a good idea for someone who may have not had a malfunction yet to get a reserve pillow. that is just not good juju. you can always change to one later on if that is what you want to do.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[okalb 104]

While I agree that the decision to use an RSL or not is his, I firmly believe that he doesn't have the knowledge or experience to be advising those even less experienced than him on matters of safety.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[skyhighkiy 0]

I totally agree with you, i am in no position to give safety advice, that's why I didn't say "you don't need an RSL" and why my post began with "just throwing something out there" and finished with "I'm just throwing some thoughts out there, take what you will and leave what you will"

nor was I really saying to buy or not to buy the rig, I was merely giving something else to think about by giving information discussed by experienced and inexperienced skydivers alike, around my d.z

I may be new, I may be in no position to give advice, but I think it's a very good idea to share possibilities of what could happen with different equipment. whcih is why I gave pros and cons to both.

the pillow is something I wasn't going to comment on, because I'm not qualified to give "shoulds and should nots"...maybe could and could nots?
does me being a newb discredit good info that should be considered, if typed by me?

and to knock down the internet communication barrier, this is not an angry reply
blues!

BE THE BUDDHA!

[okalb 104]

OK, I am not trying to lecture you here, but there are still things that you don't understand. You have 77 jumps and are jumping a very docile canopy. There is absolutely no reason for you not to have an RSL. You think that you want to get stable before pulling your reserve after a cutaway. I'll tell you what. If you find yourself spinning on your back (which won't happen under your canopy) and you actually cutaway then get stable before pulling your reserve I will pay for your repack. I guarantee you won't. VERY few people do on their first mal. You will most likely pull your handles as fast as you can.

Also, You can say all you want about the RSL causing problems, but as far as I know, nobody has ever died from an RSL fire (except the Racer double RSL system). On the other hand, there are countless deaths that an RSL probably would have prevented. The bottom line is there are reasons why people shouldn't use an RSL. I actually don't. But, you don't fit into any of the categories that would justify not having one. I am not trying to lecture you, but I really don't think you know enough or have enough experience yet to make the decision to not use a potentially life saving device.

All that being said, you can do what you want. Just try to refrain from confusing other people about things that they and you don't fully understand yet. Keep in mind that to someone with 10 jumps someone with 77 jumps seems a lot more experienced than they really are. Once again I am not putting you down. We all had 77 jumps once, but try to leave the advice to people who are a little more knowledgeable about the subject. There are plenty of people here with LOTS of experience that can better explain things a lot than you probably can at this point. For now, just jump and have fun.

I am really sorry if this comes off as condescending. It really wasn't meant that way, but I just continually read posts from newbies who think that because they have had a discussion or two with some experienced jumpers, they now have such a great understanding of the topic (whatever topic it may be) that they can preach their gospel to others. At 77 jumps, pay attention and try to learn all you can.

There are lots of very experienced skydivers who have the "we didn't use them when I was a newbie so you don't need it" kind of an attitude. Times change...technology changes and if something that could potentially save you life with very little potential for problems is availble why would you not want to use it. I can list lots of people who are very experienced even current and former world champion skydivers who jump with RSLs if I thought it would change your mind.

Anyway, I will stop rambling now, I just wanted to give you some things to think about.

Flame away all!

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[HeatherB 0]

Quote

I won't wear an RSL because in the event of a spinning malfunction, there's no time to get stable, with this, you're almost guaranteed line twists on your reserve (who knows what this will bring) and if there happens to be a canopy collision, I can't cut away w/out my reserve deploying right away.

Do you think you're likely to be spininng wildly under your Sabre 170 at 1.09:1? (If indeed your profile info is up to date) I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm really curious what your expectation is.

[diablopilot 2]

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there's no time to get stable, with this, you're almost guaranteed line twists on your reserve

This is an increadably incorrect statement.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[freeflyfree 0]

There are a lot of Experienced people that have positions in regard to some stuff like RSLs, CYPRES, Stilletos, pull out, triple risers, hatred towards certain equipment companies, etc. and they are constantly saying it out loud around the DZ, and so new jumpers take it for axioms...and you have to see with what aplomb they talk I always hated it...some are lost cases, yet there is still hope in others.

Felipe

--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

[ernokaikkonen 0]

Quote

but as far as I know, nobody has ever died from an RSL fire (except the Racer double RSL system).

Here is one. Entanglement with the main, cut-away, RSL fires the reserve pilot chute into the mess, reserve never leaves the freebag.

I'm sure there are others.

[okalb 104]

Link no worky!

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[JonBonGraham 0]

Quote

in the event of a spinning malfunction, there's no time to get stable, with this, you're almost guaranteed line twists on your reserve

Think about this: The reserve pilot 'chute can only do it's job of extracting the reserve from the container if it finds clean air (ie. if it doesn't end up in your burble) so surely common sense seems to sugest that it's actually BEST to open your reserve when you're NOT completely stable, so that it will immediately find clean air with very little chance of just sitting on your back. If you've ever used a rip-chord system with a spring-loaded PC for your main you'll know that this can be an issue! (And yeah, I know the springs for reserve PC's will be stronger than the ones for a main, but it's still a factor). I don't know about your first jump course, but as a static line student in the UK part of our emergency procedures was, after pulling the reserve handle, to arch and then 'check your canopy' by rolling your shoulders around to have a look. This was less so that you could tell if you had a mal on your reserve, and more so that if your PC was stuck in your burble, you'd alow air to spill round you and catch it, thus initiating your reserve deployment. There has been at least one fatality in the UK where someone went in because their reserve PC was stuck in thier burble, and followed them all the way to the ground. (Oh yeah - and line twists on your reserve? Who cares??? It's a bit ol' seven-cell square thing, it's just gonna sit there while you kick 'em out!)

Also - could someone in the know please explain how reserves are tested now-a-days? I was reading an old copy of Parachutist (from the 90's, I think) that explained that they were strapped to dummies with simple AAD's and then hurled out of aircraft. As you might imagine, the dummies were anything BUT stable when it came to deployment altitude, but (surprise, surprise...) reserves still do their jobs.

Okay and now...

[DISCLAIMER]What's written here is intended only as FOOD FOR THOUGHT and is not offered as any sort of iron-clad advice. I am more than happy to be told I'm wrong if I am, and to entertain conflicting opinions. And please don't flame me just because of my low jump numbers - it doesn't take ANY jumps to be able to talk to your rigger, read safety articles in magazines and on the web, etc.[/DISCLAIMER]

Blue skies!

Durham University Freefall Club

Grounds For Divorce website (band I'm in)

[gjhdiver 0]

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\I won't wear an RSL because in the event of a spinning malfunction, there's no time to get stable, with this, you're almost guaranteed line twists on your reserve (who knows what this will bring)

Nonsense.

I've cut away from at least 5 spinning malfunctions on small elliptical canopies with an RSL. Stable every time, and no twists on the reserve.

Also, twists on a docile 7 cell are a much easier thing to deal with should you have them.

[slotperfect 7]

#1 Please don't hijack threads. It diverts attention from the original subject. I detached this segment of the thread because the original was asking for advice about buying a Wings harness/container.

#2 The "RSL or No RSL" discussion is a dead horse in the forums. Many many very valuable opinions from very experienced and technically knowledgeable people are contained in numerous posts from the past. Use the forum search feature to find them.

Arrive Safely

John