People with kids vs people without.

[grue 1]

Andy9o8

Quote

so is maintaining an exotic car

Really?
You didn't really bother to read & digest my post, did you?

I did, and I disagree with a bunch of it. Yes, it sucks that people have to work more if you choose to have kids now, I'm with you on that. But it's still a choice.

cavete terrae.

[BillyVance 34]

You know, you were once a parasite too, by your definition.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[grue 1]

BillyVance

You know, you were once a parasite too, by your definition.

Yup. Used to live in the midwest, too, but that's a phase of my life that won't reoccur either

cavete terrae.

[turtlespeed 219]

grue

***You know, you were once a parasite too, by your definition.

Yup. Used to live in the midwest, too, but that's a phase of my life that won't reoccur either

Good thing you weren't aborted though.

That would have had an impact.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[TriGirl 318]

JohnMitchell

***
Brings to mind a Green Day song, where a line says, "only the stupid people are breeding."

Ahh, that's Fat Mike from NOFX, "The Idiots Are Taking Over"

Not Green Day. Blink 182.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[TriGirl 318]

jimjumper

Look who is standing duty on Holidays and it will be all the single people.

I used to volunteer for holiday duty so my coworkers could spend time with their families. It also banked some credit when I wanted to take a holiday off as well ("I worked last Christmas and New Year's Eve. I'll take Thanksgiving this year, but I'll be on leave for the December holidays!").

The problem I have with Marine Corps family policy is more about assignments. I'm not blaming the people with the families, but the assignment managers. My next-door neighbor was stationed in Tampa for the seven years before he retired. He was in N.C. for six years before that (he has twin boys). I finally stayed in one place for three years on my last tour -- overseas. Before that, of the past 18 years, I'd only been in one place for more than two years twice. Usually it was more like 15-18 months and I'd have to move again. That gets old.

I did start to notice at one of those jobs (basically a weekday duty, though we had some responsibilities on nights and weekends) that the married guys with kids would be sure to get out of the office by a certain time because they had to be home for their kids. The boss of the section might come around at 4:30 and say HIS boss needed some information compiled on a hot topic, and needed someone to stay behind to take care of it, no matter how late it got. The guys with families would be able to get out of it. I started scheduling other life requirements during duty hours as well, to balance it all out. For example, I'd schedule time with a tax preparer whenever the appointment was available -- not just in the evenings. I'd renew my car registration during the day if I knew there was nothing pressing at work, instead of wasting a weekend day. If one of those hot taskers came down before I left for my appointment, the other guys in my section would take care of it. Stuff like that. The command didn't bat an eye -- we all took off for the stuff we needed to do in life, but we also all knew that sometimes you have to come in on a weekend or stay late. We all made it work.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[NWFlyer 2]

Taxes
Government
Health care
FMLA/Federal leave policies
Same-sex marriage
Birth control
Immigration
Abortion
Blink 182

Just checking - am I still in Bonfire?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[grue 1]

turtlespeed

******You know, you were once a parasite too, by your definition.

Yup. Used to live in the midwest, too, but that's a phase of my life that won't reoccur either

Good thing you weren't aborted though.

That would have had an impact.

I'd never have known.

cavete terrae.

[oldwomanc6 52]

TriGirl

******
Brings to mind a Green Day song, where a line says, "only the stupid people are breeding."

Ahh, that's Fat Mike from NOFX, "The Idiots Are Taking Over"

Not Green Day. Blink 182.

I just found out that the Green Day version is just a cover, and that it's actually a Harvey Danger song.

I was actually referring to Green Day's "Paranoia" which is actually "Flagpole Sitta" by HD.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[JohnMitchell 16]

TriGirl

******
Brings to mind a Green Day song, where a line says, "only the stupid people are breeding."

Ahh, that's Fat Mike from NOFX, "The Idiots Are Taking Over"

Not Green Day. Blink 182.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kqLVeP7iHA

Definitely Fat Mike. Wiki credits him with the writing the song. I'll have to look for the Blink 182 version.

We've seen them a couple of times, always fun. They really don't suck live.

[ryoder 1,590]

grue

[
Yup. Used to live in the midwest, too, but that's a phase of my life that won't reoccur either

You, too?
I was born and raised there by accident.
I never did fit in.
I rectified the issue in 1996, and have never been back.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[TriGirl 318]

oldwomanc6

*********
Brings to mind a Green Day song, where a line says, "only the stupid people are breeding."

Ahh, that's Fat Mike from NOFX, "The Idiots Are Taking Over"

Not Green Day. Blink 182.

I just found out that the Green Day version is just a cover, and that it's actually a Harvey Danger song.

I was actually referring to Green Day's "Paranoia" which is actually "Flagpole Sitta" by HD. Oops! Well, there I go then. Actually, it was probably the HD version I was thinking of when I put Blink 182. Thanks for doing the actual work to look it up! I know more today than I (thought) I did yesterday.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[Nataly 38]

Andy9o8

Being on this forum over the years, I've found that the most strident commentators on all sorts of parenting-related issues more often than not are people who are not parents themselves.

Ok, but the people who are talking about "parenting-related issues" are off topic. The topic is not about raising children but about how many hours people put into their jobs as childless vs non-childless people. And the argument put forth by the OP (which you may or may not agree with) is that people without children work more hours at their jobs.

Quote

The flip side to all this bitching is that people, usually mothers, often find themselves penalized in the workplace and in their careers because they're raising children.

Whilst I do agree with this, again this is not what we are talking about. Mothers ARE discriminated against... Lower salaries, part-time work (which really turns out to be full-time responsibilities on a reduced salary), fewer promotions, the list goes on. But it's nothing to do with "working more hours." In fact, working moms often find their career prospects are limited/reduced so it indirectly supports the OP's argument - childless people work more.

Again, I don't have kids, but I *can* understand the concept that raising kids takes a lot of time and effort and energy... No one is saying parents are slackers... But when you divide your time between the office and raising your kids, it seems pretty obvious (to me) that since there are only so many hours in a day, there is a limit to how many hours they can put in at the office. And childless people may "work less" overall (as they don't have a "second job" when they come home), but they work more at the office.

Is that fair?? Well, like I said, life is not fair any way you look at it (in many ways it's not fair on parents either)... But part of what makes a society work is that some people contribute where others cannot.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

No one is saying parents are slackers.

And I think that that undercurrent is reflected in several posts in here. Anyhow, as I said above, I think many people, by virtue of their personal life's vantage point (which is why it is relevant) are being short-sighted, and they'd do well to recognize that it cuts both ways.

One of our friends here considers children to be "parasites dropped from a vagina". Of course, a prime attribute of being a parasite is taking, while giving little or nothing back. Well, as others above have suggested, he'd do well to bear in mind that the "parasites" that parents raised during the employable (and skydivable, and travelable) years of his life will, as adults, be giving back by running the infrastructure upon which he'll depend - and by changing his Depends - when he's an elderly "parasite". That's the social compact: each in his/her own way, everyone gives so that everyone may take.

[forblueskies 0]

Are you sure of that fact, or do the more educated just have children later in life?

Vanderbilt-Emory grad, mom of 3

[oldwomanc6 52]

forblueskies

Are you sure of that fact, or do the more educated just have children later in life?

Vanderbilt-Emory grad, mom of 3

According to the CDC, it is. The educated do have children later (but at still a lower rate than the less educated, overall).

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[forblueskies 0]

Making offspring? Sometimes it's easy, and sometimes it's incredibly hard for some couples, and very expensive.

Carrying that "parasite" for 9 and a half months? Doing that while working a 40-hour a week job, or more? Doing that while working, without having any extra time off for doc visits or when you have morning sickness, fatigue, et cet? Try that and get back to me.

Dropping it out of a vagina??? LMAO Call me next time you birth a bowling ball after 10-24 hours of labor. Oh, wait. You have a set of tiny balls, not a vagina.

Recovering from childbirth and taking care of a newborn who is up half the night? Doing that after having major surgery, i.e. a Cesarean?

Or perhaps, visiting a sick newborn in the ICU for a few days or months??

Yes, all of that is a choice, but your blase description makes me super glad I am not your girlfriend, or your mom who dropped you out of a vagina.

I've done both, worked since I was 20, had my own company, worked 80-hour weeks, no benefits or paid time off, raised 3 children (not parasites) both with help and singly, with only 6 weeks off each time to recover from a Cesarean, unpaid, sent all 3 to college, and have produced 3 more well-paid taxpayers to support you in your old age. And I stilll had the balls to do my first skydive at 55. Compared to everything else I have done, THAT was a piece of cake.

I will close this soliloquy by saying birthing and raising children through college was, by far, the hardest thing I have ever done. I used to go to work (and my work is very challenging), to get a rest from childrearing.