ryoder 1,590 #1 February 3, 2015 QuoteThe airplane departed on the local night flight in instrument flight rules conditions with 7 miles visibility and overcast clouds at 300 ft above ground level (agl). Radar data showed that the airplane departed the runway, made one flight around the traffic pattern, and landed 6 minutes later. The airplane departed again to the west, did not remain in the traffic pattern, and reached an altitude of 740 ft agl. The airplane made a left turn, which tightened as the airplane descended about 1,900 ft per minute. The airplane impacted a field and bounced one time before it came to rest upright. An onboard recording device (GoPro) was found near the wreckage and the files were recovered. Based on the available information, it is likely that the GoPro files were recorded on May 30 and May 31, 2014, with the final GoPro file recorded during the 6-minute flight in the traffic pattern. The accident flight was not recorded. The GoPro recordings revealed that the pilot and various passengers were taking self-photographs with their cell phones and, during the night flight, using the camera’s flash function during the takeoff roll, initial climb, and flight in the traffic pattern. A postaccident examination of the airplane did not reveal any preimpact anomalies that would have precluded normal operation. Based on the wreckage distribution, which was consistent with a high-speed impact, and the degraded visual reference conditions, it is likely that the pilot experienced spatial disorientation and lost control of the airplane. The evidence is consistent with an aerodynamic stall and subsequent spin into terrain. Based on the evidence of cell phone use during low-altitude maneuvering, including the flight immediately before the accident flight, it is likely that cell phone use during the accident flight distracted the pilot and contributed to the development of spatial disorientation and subsequent loss of control. A review of the pilot’s logbooks did not show that he met the currency requirements for flight in instrument meteorological conditions or night flight with passengers. Source: http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20140531X12318&key=1&queryId=3bb6db6d-477b-47be-8776-433af1149cfc&pgno=2&pgsize=50 Factual 01/13/2015 PDF: http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/GeneratePDF.aspx?id=CEN14FA265&rpt=fa Probable cause 01/27/2015 PDF: http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/GeneratePDF.aspx?id=CEN14FA265&rpt=fi Photos: http://abcnews.go.com/US/selfies-caused-colorado-plane-crash-ntsb/story?id=28688703"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 February 3, 2015 The seflies are the sexy headline part, but not being current with IMC and night is even more telling. It's entirely likely they were dead when they decided to go flying.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #3 February 3, 2015 quadeThe seflies are the sexy headline part, but not being current with IMC and night is even more telling. It's entirely likely they were dead when they decided to go flying. Agree totally. A midnight flight into a 300 foot stratus deck without being current is what the stupid thing was. This thing is more like JFK, Jr. Notably there was no physical evidence that a camera was used in that flight. Probably was, though. But selfies do sound sexy My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #4 February 3, 2015 lawrocket***The seflies are the sexy headline part, but not being current with IMC and night is even more telling. It's entirely likely they were dead when they decided to go flying. Agree totally. A midnight flight into a 300 foot stratus deck without being current is what the stupid thing was. This thing is more like JFK, Jr. Notably there was no physical evidence that a camera was used in that flight. Probably was, though. But selfies do sound sexy With the exception that at least this guy held an instrument rating."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #5 February 4, 2015 theonlyski******The seflies are the sexy headline part, but not being current with IMC and night is even more telling. It's entirely likely they were dead when they decided to go flying. Agree totally. A midnight flight into a 300 foot stratus deck without being current is what the stupid thing was. This thing is more like JFK, Jr. Notably there was no physical evidence that a camera was used in that flight. Probably was, though. But selfies do sound sexy With the exception that at least this guy held an instrument rating. So what? He was operating VFR from runway 26 in IMC below IFR minimums for that runway, with no IFR flight plan, uncurrent, at night... I have an instrument rating and am both instrument and night current, and I wouldn't do it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #6 February 4, 2015 kallend*********The seflies are the sexy headline part, but not being current with IMC and night is even more telling. It's entirely likely they were dead when they decided to go flying. Agree totally. A midnight flight into a 300 foot stratus deck without being current is what the stupid thing was. This thing is more like JFK, Jr. Notably there was no physical evidence that a camera was used in that flight. Probably was, though. But selfies do sound sexy With the exception that at least this guy held an instrument rating. So what? He was operating VFR from runway 26 in IMC below IFR minimums for that runway, with no IFR flight plan, uncurrent, at night... I have an instrument rating and am both instrument and night current, and I wouldn't do it. I'm not saying that it was smart or legal, just that he did have an instrument rating whereas JFK Jr didn't. 300' ceilings at night in a 150 isn't somewhere I'd want to be. I am current and wouldn't want anything to do with that, and I wouldn't be anywhere in the air with that weather if I wasn't on a flight plan and going somewhere important."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,422 #7 February 4, 2015 Where's anything about a Toxicology Report?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #8 February 4, 2015 BIGUN Where's anything about a Toxicology Report? QuoteMEDICAL AND PATHOLOGICAL INFORMATION An autopsy was performed on the pilot at the Adams County Coroner's Office, Brighton, Colorado, on June 2, 2014. The cause of death was multiple fractures and internal injuries due to blunt trauma and the manner of death was listed as an accident. The FAA Civil Aerospace Medical Institute completed a Final Forensic Toxicology Fatal Accident Report, which was negative and no tested for drugs were detected. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,422 #9 February 4, 2015 Thanks Ski, I must have skipped right over that.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #10 February 4, 2015 Darwin at work, aided by selfies. For years, skydivers have done stupid things under the influence of cameras. Sounds like some pilots are catching up to us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #11 February 4, 2015 Now that the FAA has made a determination that adding a gopro to an airplane in many cases doesn't require formal documentation, people are strapping them on in record numbers. At least there will be plenty of evidence now... "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,075 #12 February 4, 2015 >Sounds like some pilots are catching up to us. Only the bad ones. The heads-up ones won't be affected. (Just ask them.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #13 February 5, 2015 theonlyski Now that the FAA has made a determination that adding a gopro to an airplane in many cases doesn't require formal documentation, people are strapping them on in record numbers. At least there will be plenty of evidence now... "The poor man's flight recorder". Could be especially valuable if located where it can cover the instrument panel."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #14 February 5, 2015 ryoder "The poor man's flight recorder". Could be especially valuable if located where it can cover the instrument panel. A few years back, I was riding jumpsuit in a B727, flying SLC to SEA. I had my Sony 8mm camera out of my gear bag and asked the captain if I could film the take off and landing. He said sure. Got some cool cockpit video, including all the radio chatter by putting a set of headphones over the mike. Later some fellow controllers were amazed he let me do it, just in case he screwed up and crashed. . . For a bunch of guys that worked having everything they said and did recorded, I thought that sounded a little nervous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldwomanc6 60 #15 February 5, 2015 JohnMitchell ***"The poor man's flight recorder". Could be especially valuable if located where it can cover the instrument panel. A few years back, I was riding jumpsuit in a B727, flying SLC to SEA. I had my Sony 8mm camera out of my gear bag and asked the captain if I could film the take off and landing. He said sure. Got some cool cockpit video, including all the radio chatter by putting a set of headphones over the mike. Later some fellow controllers were amazed he let me do it, just in case he screwed up and crashed. . . For a bunch of guys that worked having everything they said and did recorded, I thought that sounded a little nervous. Only a skydiver would say this. lisa WSCR 594 FB 1023 CBDB 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #16 February 5, 2015 oldwomanc6 Only a skydiver would say this. Yeah, considering we made a sport out of a f-ing emergency procedure, I guess maybe you're right. I heard a lot of extreme fishing and bowling stories at work. I didn't bother telling too many of mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #17 February 6, 2015 JohnMitchell Later some fellow controllers were amazed he let me do it, just in case he screwed up and crashed. . . For a bunch of guys that worked having everything they said and did recorded, I thought that sounded a little nervous. A CFI once told me if I ever get into a plane crash and I get out of the plane, but it's on fire, throw my log book in, just in case I wasn't current or legal. Also had a CFI tell me that if I got the dreaded 'call the tower' notice during my solo flights, to give them the name of a flight instructor that no longer worked at that school. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #18 February 6, 2015 theonlyski the dreaded 'call the tower' notice during my solo flights, Oh yeah, I remember reading more than a couple of pilots a phone number to call when they landed. Sucked, but when you lose separation and the pilot caused it, there's not much you can do. A takeaway from this? If you think you f-ed up and they are quizzing you really hard about your altitude, the pilot's verbally reported altitude trumps mode C legally. "Darn, what does my mode C show now, Center? I just had it in the shop last week. Let me turn it off for a minute." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #19 February 6, 2015 JohnMitchell "Darn, what does my mode C show now, Center? I just had it in the shop last week. Let me turn it off for a minute." "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #20 February 6, 2015 JohnMitchell *** the dreaded 'call the tower' notice during my solo flights, Oh yeah, I remember reading more than a couple of pilots a phone number to call when they landed. Sucked, but when you lose separation and the pilot caused it, there's not much you can do. A takeaway from this? If you think you f-ed up and they are quizzing you really hard about your altitude, the pilot's verbally reported altitude trumps mode C legally. "Darn, what does my mode C show now, Center? I just had it in the shop last week. Let me turn it off for a minute." I had one bit in my transponder go bad on an IFR flight some years back. The "gray" code used to transmit pressure altitude is weird, and the missing bit cause some very strange altitudes to be reported. Center was perfectly happy for me to report my altitude verbally and instructed me to turn off mode C.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #21 February 6, 2015 kallend I had one bit in my transponder go bad on an IFR flight some years back. The "gray" code used to transmit pressure altitude is weird, and the missing bit cause some very strange altitudes to be reported. Center was perfectly happy for me to report my altitude verbally and instructed me to turn off mode C. Exactly. Malfunctioning mode C is not too rare of an occurrence. I've seen aircraft at 3500' show FL 295. I've said "stop altitude squawk" many times. And as a controller I was happy to call a harmless altitude busts "mode C malfunctions". It avoided a lot of paperwork for the pilot and most pilots seem to learn from it without "coaching and counseling" from FSDO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #22 February 7, 2015 JohnMitchell ***I had one bit in my transponder go bad on an IFR flight some years back. The "gray" code used to transmit pressure altitude is weird, and the missing bit cause some very strange altitudes to be reported. Center was perfectly happy for me to report my altitude verbally and instructed me to turn off mode C. Exactly. Malfunctioning mode C is not too rare of an occurrence. I've seen aircraft at 3500' show FL 295. I've said "stop altitude squawk" many times. And as a controller I was happy to call a harmless altitude busts "mode C malfunctions". It avoided a lot of paperwork for the pilot and most pilots seem to learn from it without "coaching and counseling" from FSDO. I've had my Mode-C show me at just about exactly 300' off on a 7 hour IFR trip. Apparently 300' off is when the controllers start asking to verify altitude (get to your assigned altitude)."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #23 February 7, 2015 theonlyski I've had my Mode-C show me at just about exactly 300' off on a 7 hour IFR trip. Apparently 300' off is when the controllers start asking to verify altitude (get to your assigned altitude). Yes, mode C is considered valid when it varies by less than 300 feet. Since it reads out it in 100 foot increments, 200 feet or less variance is considered good. Anything more than that, we have to ask questions, as well as verify you have the correct local altimeter setting. You should get one altimeter setting per enroute frequency. If not, the guy's slackin'. In enroute data blocks, 200 foot variance or less is actually filtered out, to reduce clutter, when you're at your final assigned altitude. To do a precise mode C check (such as for a test flight) the controller needs to override the filter function. BTW, your adjustment of the Kolsman window on your altimeter does nothing to alter your mode C readout. The transponder sends a pressure altitude to the radar site. The radar computer then applies the local altimeter setting for your area to adjust the readout to the correct value. Gosh, I thought I would have forgotten all this stuff by now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #24 February 7, 2015 JohnMitchell Yes, mode C is considered valid when it varies by less than 300 feet. Since it reads out it in 100 foot increments, 200 feet or less variance is considered good. Tell that to all the CFI-I's out there! "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aarco 0 #25 February 8, 2015 kallend*********The seflies are the sexy headline part, but not being current with IMC and night is even more telling. It's entirely likely they were dead when they decided to go flying. Agree totally. A midnight flight into a 300 foot stratus deck without being current is what the stupid thing was. This thing is more like JFK, Jr. Notably there was no physical evidence that a camera was used in that flight. Probably was, though. But selfies do sound sexy I would not do this,, all I do lately is rnd,, stupid is as stupid does !, 300 ft,, pressure is pressure,, It feels like your asking to get set up at that point,, I mean,, in the slap stick forum,, are you that use to scud running with weather night vision goggles, as a pilot,,, not ""this is what my paper says I am,,"" cfi ifr, ils,, cfr, vfr, cqc,, crack letter my career ,, bullet to my ego,, That hot hud avionics tec is cool,, has anyone seen that yet,, no, sht,, real time holographics, at two prismatic mounts,, that would kung fu crapy weather night flights,, but 300 ft? With the exception that at least this guy held an instrument rating. So what? He was operating VFR from runway 26 in IMC below IFR minimums for that runway, with no IFR flight plan, uncurrent, at night... I have an instrument rating and am both instrument and night current, and I wouldn't do it. Having something never beats doing (>|<) Iam building things - Iam working on my mind- I am going to change this world - its what I came here 4- - - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
