QZ8501 - Air Asia Flight Lost Contact.

[strife 0]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30614627

Lost contact at 6:15 am local time. Hope it turns out better than the last one

[ryoder 1,590]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/28/indonesia-to-singapore-airasia-flight-loses-contact-with-air-traffic-control

He said the plane had asked for an unusual route before it lost contact.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Zep 0]

It's Christmas the ALIENS want more LONG PORK.

Gone fishing

[hcsvader 1]

Im getting on Air ASia flight D7 237 in a few hours.

Better not fuck up my new years eve in thailand plans

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[hcsvader 1]

Seems some of air asias flights have been delayed.
Man the weather looks pretty bad at the moment…

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[ryoder 1,590]

Black box found: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/airasia-qz8501-black-box/1583208.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[BillyVance 34]

That's the good news.

The bad news is it's pinned down by wreckage. They're gonna have to shift the wreckage somewhat just to retrieve the boxes.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[JohnMitchell 16]

ryoder

Black box found: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/airasia-qz8501-black-box/1583208.html

That is great news. I hope they can figure out the cause. I'm guessing it might have been automation confusion again, like the Air France Airbus that went down in the Atlantic. I'll say it again, I'm not a fan of Airbus's highly computerized control system. It's caused too many crashes and near crashes already.

[ryoder 1,590]

JohnMitchell

I'm guessing it might have been automation confusion again, like the Air France Airbus that went down in the Atlantic.

I've been thinking the same thing.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,590]

They have the data recorder;
Still searching for voice recorder.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2015/01/airasia-black-box-found-2015111234534267945.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[lawrocket 3]

JohnMitchell

***Black box found: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/airasia-qz8501-black-box/1583208.html

That is great news. I hope they can figure out the cause. I'm guessing it might have been automation confusion again, like the Air France Airbus that went down in the Atlantic. I'll say it again, I'm not a fan of Airbus's highly computerized control system. It's caused too many crashes and near crashes already.

Agreed. But the data may reveal a worse thunderstorm than thought. In that case, not just icing up instrumentation but wings, empennage, hail taking out engines and/or a windscreen. Like Air France, the recorders will likely make sense of what happened.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[ryoder 1,590]

Voice recorder recovered http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/01/12/airasia-blackbox-recovery/21618499/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[BillyVance 34]

Were Sum Tin Wong, Wi Tu Lo and Ho Lee Fuk on this flight?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[pchapman 279]

BillyVance

Were Sum Tin Wong, Wi Tu Lo and Ho Lee Fuk on this flight?

Old...

As opposed to "Kent Parker Wright", which was used by a Korean news station when a US plane had a landing problem, in humourous retaliation for a US news station making up fake Asian names after the Asiana crash at San Francisco.

[Rick 67]

that's priceless

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

pchapman

***Were Sum Tin Wong, Wi Tu Lo and Ho Lee Fuk on this flight?

Old...

As opposed to "Kent Parker Wright", which was used by a Korean news station when a US plane had a landing problem, in humourous retaliation for a US news station making up fake Asian names after the Asiana crash at San Francisco.

Almost, but not quite.

It apparently never actually aired on TV.

http://www.geekinheels.com/2013/07/30/southwest-airlines-landing-gear-failure-prompts-fake-american-pilot-names.html

And Billy -

Wi Tu Lo, Sum Ting Wong, Ho Lee Fuk and Bang Ding Ow (you forgot him, didn't you) were KOREAN.

Not Indonesian.

What, do they all look alike to you?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[ryoder 1,590]

Sounding even more like the Air France crash: http://news.yahoo.com/airasia-jets-alarms-screaming-crash-investigator-100850382.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 3,078]

Another Airbus.

"The plane can't stall - so just pull back as hard as you can and we'll go up."

[ryoder 1,590]

Bits of info from the data recorders: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-29/indonesia-won-t-publish-preliminary-report-on-airasia-jet-probe

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[lawrocket 3]

ryoder

Bits of info from the data recorders: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-29/indonesia-won-t-publish-preliminary-report-on-airasia-jet-probe

They shut down the Flight Aumentation Computers. I suspect because they had alarms and such going off. That meant manual flying.

The issue in my mone is whether the computers were turned off because the FAC was behaving as it shouldn't. Or whether the FAC was shut down because it wouldn't let the crew do what they wanted to do.

Yes, sounding more like Air France. Manual flying not accomplished.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,078]

>The issue in my mone is whether the computers were turned off because the FAC was
>behaving as it shouldn't. Or whether the FAC was shut down because it wouldn't let
>the crew do what they wanted to do.

There are a few AD's out against Airbus that list potential problems, with the corrective action "shut down the ELAC/SEC" to force a change to an alternate control law. With alarms going off due to loss of air data due to icing, they may have misidentified the problem, shut down the computers and then tried to climb, falling back on their perception that "you can't stall an A320."

[theonlyski 8]

billvon

>
There are a few AD's out against Airbus that list potential problems, with the corrective action "shut down the ELAC/SEC" to force a change to an alternate control law. With alarms going off due to loss of air data due to icing, they may have misidentified the problem, shut down the computers and then tried to climb, falling back on their perception that "you can't stall an A320."

This is something I never quite understood. If the pitots get iced up, why would you climb? A zero (or decaying) airspeed indication would be reason to push the nose down to regain airspeed.

Also, I'm fairly certain these aircraft both had some sort of GPSS capability that would've given them altitude and ground speed.

My money would be on them trying to out climb a storm (bad idea) and the computer didn't let them, so they disabled it because they thought they knew better than the avionics. A 10,000 FPM climb sure seems excessive.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[lawrocket 3]

theonlyski

***>
There are a few AD's out against Airbus that list potential problems, with the corrective action "shut down the ELAC/SEC" to force a change to an alternate control law. With alarms going off due to loss of air data due to icing, they may have misidentified the problem, shut down the computers and then tried to climb, falling back on their perception that "you can't stall an A320."

This is something I never quite understood. If the pitots get iced up, why would you climb? A zero (or decaying) airspeed indication would be reason to push the nose down to regain airspeed.

Also, I'm fairly certain these aircraft both had some sort of GPSS capability that would've given them altitude and ground speed.

My money would be on them trying to out climb a storm (bad idea) and the computer didn't let them, so they disabled it because they thought they knew better than the avionics. A 10,000 FPM climb sure seems excessive.

If pittas are iced then instruments are malfunctioning. Add storm. Add night. Add turbulence. Added up, that makes. Pretty good case for spatial disorientation playing a role.

It's been. Few years, but I recall being instructed that if the pitot ices up then the airspeed indications would be off. Why would they climb? Because with an iced pitot the airspeed will indicate as increasing during a climb even if it is decelerating. Add spatial disorientation with a rapid climb indicating increasing airspeed, I can see how a pilot will keep increasing the climb rate to slow the plane down.

Not saying that happened, but it's what I remember about the pitot static system as a warning to stay the hell out of icing conditions at all costs.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[theonlyski 8]

lawrocket

******>
There are a few AD's out against Airbus that list potential problems, with the corrective action "shut down the ELAC/SEC" to force a change to an alternate control law. With alarms going off due to loss of air data due to icing, they may have misidentified the problem, shut down the computers and then tried to climb, falling back on their perception that "you can't stall an A320."

This is something I never quite understood. If the pitots get iced up, why would you climb? A zero (or decaying) airspeed indication would be reason to push the nose down to regain airspeed.

Also, I'm fairly certain these aircraft both had some sort of GPSS capability that would've given them altitude and ground speed.

My money would be on them trying to out climb a storm (bad idea) and the computer didn't let them, so they disabled it because they thought they knew better than the avionics. A 10,000 FPM climb sure seems excessive.

If pittas are iced then instruments are malfunctioning. Add storm. Add night. Add turbulence. Added up, that makes. Pretty good case for spatial disorientation playing a role.

It's been. Few years, but I recall being instructed that if the pitot ices up then the airspeed indications would be off. Why would they climb? Because with an iced pitot the airspeed will indicate as increasing during a climb even if it is decelerating. Add spatial disorientation with a rapid climb indicating increasing airspeed, I can see how a pilot will keep increasing the climb rate to slow the plane down.

Not saying that happened, but it's what I remember about the pitot static system as a warning to stay the hell out of icing conditions at all costs.

Well, it depends on what else is frozen but yes, a frozen pitot will generally act as an altimeter (climb will show increase, descent will show decrease) but if their static system is still operational, their altimeter would still work and even if all of that isn't working, their attitude indicator will still show climbs/descents/turns. In the Airbus, this is an EFD and wouldn't matter to it if the pitot was frozen (other than I'm sure whatever the computer errors on). There is absolutely no reason in my mind that such experienced pilots would become easily disoriented with that level of information in their faces. Worst case scenario is put the plane in heading and altitude hold and make changes with the autopilot.

(Keep in mind, I don't really have a whole lot of experience on the Airbus line and only got a day of indoc and an hour or two on the full motion)

Also, it would be worth mentioning that if the pitot froze, chances are it could show about the same airspeed, so they shouldn't have been worried about climbing to slow down unless they were above Va and they couldn't slow down with the thrust levers

Speaking of thrust levers, on the Airbus they aren't actually linked to the engines, and have no direct correlation to their settings. To take off, you advance the thrust levers to the third 'click' and the computer knows that's the takeoff setting, so it applies power to the engines as necessary, then back one click for climb/cruise I believe.

ETA: Here is a link to the A320 panel, there are three sources of attitude reference visible.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

There is absolutely no reason in my mind that such experienced pilots would become easily disoriented with that level of information in their faces.

Same thing I said about Air France. What pilot would stall a plane 40k feet right down to the ocean? But it happened.

And thanks for the display photo. The attitude indicators would work barring a problem with the vacuum system. Just like the Air France, if the autopilot shut off it would have still been in stable flight. The indications that the FAC was shut off? I see merit to the theory of shutting it off to coax performance out of it in climb.

But I also see merit in the pilots thinking they were over speed. If the static port froze over I could see more problems, but not a complete explanation. I'm just thinking disorientation is a good candidate, especially if the plane is telling you that the instruments can't be trusted.

It was getting near service ceiling. A hold in speed, attitude and heading may be rough when you think the difference between Vs and Vne is within the variability of wind speeds in a storm. Which makes me wonder why they requested that Altitude of 38k to begin with.

So much just damned curious about this. Almost all speculation, too.

My wife is hotter than your wife.