Weight Limits of Mini-Risers

[freakflyer9999 1]

Are there weight limits on mini-risers?

I just received a PD Navigator 280 demo canopy on mini-risers with Slinks. I've seen numbers on the Slinks that indicate they are even stronger than standard links, but I've always heard that mini-risers should not be used by large jumpers. My exit weight is around 300 lbs.

[BIGUN 1,421]

Let me begin by saying I'm not a rigger. However, I am an Anvil Brother at 265# out the door.

Having said that, according to John Sherman (1997), "Let us say you are in a high speed, spinning malfunction and you have to cutaway. You have a mini ring set on your risers and they are manufactured poorly, and only have a mechanical advantage of 12 to 1. You weigh 200lb. with gear and are spinning so fast that you are pulling about 3 G's, which results in a load of 600lb. on your risers. The load on your yellow cable at the loop is therefore fifty pounds. The yellow cable will pull through the grommet at sixty pounds. Unless your cable is well oiled and you are very strong, you won't be able to cut away. Believe me, I have been there."
(Ref: http://www.zct.co.uk/skydivemag/pages/articles/oct97/kitnews.htm

There will be newer information provided from Master Riggers and Senior Riggers to this thread which may refute my opinion of - Guys our size shouldn't exceed the weight limitations of our equipment; whether its risers, 3-rings or reserve sizes. I jump Type 8 risers, standard 3-rings and have a 249 Dash M reserve. My Main is a Safire2 169 (300#)

As for the slinks, there is enough evidence to suggest they are stronger than metal connectors, but I must admit that psychologically for me; I'm still having difficulty wrapping my brain around it.

What we do can be dangerous enough with the right equipment, why risk it with smaller equipment. I've yet to have someone in freefall point at my large 3-rings or Type 8 risers and hold there nose while pointing at me. (Well, at least not for my gear )

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Harksaw 0]

That math calculating the pressure on either riser doesn't seem to take into account that there are two risers, and the weight is about half on each.

__________________________________________________
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.

[mjosparky 4]

His math may be wrong, but all rigs are TSO'd with Type Vll and Type Vlll risers. Do you think maybe there is a reason for that. Type 17 risers and mini rings add nothing positive to a rig and can and do cause problems. Some people say they make their canopy go faster. That may be so, but very few people have access to the equipment needed to measure the difference.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[slotperfect 7]

3-Ring Mechanical Advantage Chart

PM Bill Booth for his recommendation on what kind of risers you should jump.

Personally, I am 250 out the door and jump Type 17 mini risers so I can pull my slider down behind my head. I keep the risers well maintained and the cutaway cables cleaned and lubricated.

Arrive Safely

John

[freakflyer9999 1]

Thanks to everyone for the info.

I think that I will change the canopy to my risers before jumping it. As I said before this is a demo canopy that came on mini-risers from PD. I would never consider jumping mini-risers routinely.

I wish that they had asked me before they shipped it to me on the mini-risers. I clearly stated my weight on the demo request form.

[diablopilot 2]

There really is no reason why you should switch the risers. They have a saftey factor well beyond what you'll be loading them. And I know the source for PD's Demo risers. RWS. If they can't make them to speck, who do you think can?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[riggerrob 643]

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Thanks to everyone for the info.

I think that I will change the canopy to my risers before jumping it. As I said before this is a demo canopy that came on mini-risers from PD. I would never consider jumping mini-risers routinely.

I wish that they had asked me before they shipped it to me on the mini-risers. I clearly stated my weight on the demo request form.

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Most canopy manufacturers put demo canopies on mini 3-ring risers because mini rings are compatible with both mini and standard-sized harness rings.
And mini risers are strong enough to support your weight in the short run.

[riggerrob 643]

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That math calculating the pressure on either riser doesn't seem to take into account that there are two risers, and the weight is about half on each.

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Hee!
Hee!
Spinning malfunctions are rarely polite enough to load risers evenly.
If your shoulders are uneven at line stretch, one riser will take all the opening shock and start line twists.

[airtwardo 7]

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I've always heard that mini-risers should not be used by large jumpers. My exit weight is around 300 lbs.

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You should do what YOU are comfortable with...but my .02

I jump a 260 for demonstration jumps that has mini-risers
and with all the gear I'm 320 out the door.
The canopy is going on 10 years old now has 700+ jumps
on it and the risers have never been a problem.

...As far as a spinning malfunction on a Navigator,
I don't believe it would be as much of a factor in regard
to cut away force as a small / higher loaded canopy.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[LouYoung 0]

Reference this post:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1041580#1041580

I was at the DZ when a mini-riser snapped. Mirage later told the jumper that you shouldn't jump mini's if your exit weight is over 200lbs. Manufacturer recommendation.

Lou

PS - I never got a picture of risers before they were sent back. Damn.

Edited by slotperfect to make the link clicky

[peckerhead 0]

I was at a boogie two weeks ago and a good friend of mine had a hard opening and broke his rear mini riser on one side. It was a new canopy and the canopy was not damaged.

It ripped in half just below the toggle keeper.

He is about 265+ gear exit weight. The canopy was new but the risers had 500+ jumps. He had a hard opening about two weeks before that tore lines on an older canopy resulting in a reserve ride.

He replaced the canopy but not the risers so we speculated the risers were weakened by the first hard opening and snapped after several jumps on the new canopy.

Makes you think....The tandems don't use mini risers do they?

[riggerrob 643]

The canopy was new but the risers had 500+ jumps. He had a hard opening about two weeks before that tore lines on an older canopy resulting in a reserve ride.

He replaced the canopy but not the risers so we speculated the risers were weakened by the first hard opening and snapped after several jumps on the new canopy.

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We replace suspension lines after 500+ jumps.
Shouldn't we replace high wear components - like risers - on a similar schedule?

[Treejumps 0]

I'm 275 out the door, and have 2 sets of mini risers with at least 1000 jumps on each. They are in decent condition and I don't fear them breaking inthe least. I gusee they could, but not likely. Each riser starts at 1500#, totaling 6000# of support, so I feel good about them.

[billbooth 10]

Reinforced type-17 webbing risers rarely break. They have a new breaking strength of around 3,500 lbs. This is not that much less than type-8 risers breaking strength of 4,000 lbs. The real difference is whether you have mini rings or large rings...and the difference here is in cutaway forces, not breaking strength. While properly designed mini-ring risers can easily release even a 250 lb. jumper in a 3 or 4 "G" spin, the problem is that it is harder to manufacture mini-ring risers correctly. What causes any riser to break is usually a combination of a heavy jumper, a hard opening canopy, and no stretch (Spectra, Vectran, or HTML) line. Broken risers on Dacron lined canopies are very rare indeed.

[thepollster 0]

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The real difference is whether you have mini rings or large rings...

So why won't RWS make risers with large rings and mini-webbing? I have called and asked for this, and was told you wouldn't do it.

[billbooth 10]

Sorry, we already make so many different kinds of risers, and big rings on type 17 risers is such a rare request, that sometimes we just have to say no...even though there is nothing wrong with such an design.

Try this...Call up PD, and ask for a 183 1/2 square foot Vengeance, with the "A" lines blue... "B" lines pink..."C" lines green...and "D" lines purple...and while they're at it, would they please throw in a two-tone slider sewn in orange thread, and see what they say. Hey wait a minute...that sounds like fun...Excuse me , I've got to make a phone call.

[diablopilot 2]

I think I love you for the above post!

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mjosparky 4]

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I think I love you for the above post!

Don't laugh, Bill will probably make the call just for grins.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals