Should mountain climbs or high risk sports be regulated.

[Zep 0]

After mount Rainier and the news of 5 dead on mount Blanc.
Should in your opinion mountain climbing or risky sports be regulated.

My opinion is No, if someone wants to climb a mountain, scuba dive or skydive or any activity
involving risks then the owness is on the person or persons partaking in said activity to evaluate the risks.
and decide if they are sufficiently prepared for the risk involved.
As with any high risk sport or activity their will always be accidents.

Gone fishing

[cgriff 0]

We cannot legislate common sense into existence (or morality for that matter, but that's a separate discussion). We keep trying to over and over and over, and every time, we're surprised when it doesn't work.

[Amazon 7]

Zep

After mount Rainier and the news of 5 dead on mount Blanc.
Should in your opinion mountain climbing or risky sports be regulated.

My opinion is No, if someone wants to climb a mountain, scuba dive or skydive or any activity
involving risks then the owness is on the person or persons partaking in said activity to evaluate the risks.
and decide if they are sufficiently prepared for the risk involved.
As with any high risk sport or activity their will always be accidents.

I vote for no... regulation wise, it would be a sad boring world if humans were not allowed to challenge the extremes that our planet has to offer.

[Glitch 0]

I vote No.... and wonder why this isn't a poll. :P

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[adagen 0]

No, no, no, no and NO!!!!

The bureaucrats and their clipboards infest enough of our lives already. And they don't actually reduce risk, they just cost money and take enjoyment out of things.

It's a different matter where a number of different interests occupy the same space and have conflicting needs, particularly where large numbers of people are involved, such as power craft close inshore to busy beaches. But if there are no conflicting uses of a space, the bureaucrats add nothing.

Anne

[Phillbo 11]

Isn't skydiving already regulated? You can't just show up at a DZ and jump without a license.

[Zep 0]

Glitch

I vote No.... and wonder why this isn't a poll. :P

Great idea, Why didn't I think of that.

And to the person that questioned Skydiving, That was a bad example,
I'm old and sometimes live in the past.

Gone fishing

[BIGUN 1,317]

Phillbo

Isn't skydiving already regulated? You can't just show up at a DZ and jump without a license.

Not 100% accurate. Still several member clubs.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[fastphil 0]

Mother regulates us all

[Calvin19 0]

Phillbo

Isn't skydiving already regulated? You can't just show up at a DZ and jump without a license.

Legally, No. Anyone with a legal aircraft, legal pilot, and legal equipment in legal airspace can make a parachute jump. Industry regulation keeps the sport in check.

[quade 4]

Zep

After mount Rainier and the news of 5 dead on mount Blanc.
Should in your opinion mountain climbing or risky sports be regulated.

I think the key word here is regulated.

Regulated is not banned.

A "bit" of qualifying regulation, like ensuring the person is actually qualified to perform the sort isn't a horrible idea. It would allow people to still do the thing, like climb a mountain, but would help cut down on knuckleheads who set out woefully unprepared. I would also probably pay for itself in cutting down the cost of rescuing said knuckleheads when things go south.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

And what happens when the "experts" need rescuing?

Rescue them.

Quote

Ignorance can surely injure and kill but "knowledge and experience" does all too often embolden the experinced to do foolish things and put themsleves into positions even they cannot get themselves out of;hence, they need to be rescued.

Definitely. But someone with 200 jumps is more likely to be able to safely land a beginner canopy than someone with 0 jumps - which is why we have basic regulations for training requirements. It helps cut down on death and injury.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Zep

After mount Rainier and the news of 5 dead on mount Blanc.
Should in your opinion mountain climbing or risky sports be regulated.

My opinion is No, if someone wants to climb a mountain, scuba dive or skydive or any activity
involving risks then the owness is on the person or persons partaking in said activity to evaluate the risks.
and decide if they are sufficiently prepared for the risk involved.
As with any high risk sport or activity their will always be accidents.

No, but any money required to rescue, or recover those who deliberately engage in these activities should be borne by the user, not the public.

[quade 4]

Boomerdog

So are you saying that the experienced do not have to pay the rescue costs vis a vis the ignorant, inexperienced knuckleheads who would have to pay rescue costs?

Society will end up paying for both. It's simply good policy to cut down on that.

As for the rest of your rant, take it to SC.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jakee 1,497]

Mont Blanc Mayor on 'Ad-Hoc Alpinists'.

In short, no regulation, but no consumer service either. "... climbers are wrong to think they can snap their fingers and receive assistance".

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jackwallace 3]

SkyDekker

***After mount Rainier and the news of 5 dead on mount Blanc.
Should in your opinion mountain climbing or risky sports be regulated.

My opinion is No, if someone wants to climb a mountain, scuba dive or skydive or any activity
involving risks then the owness is on the person or persons partaking in said activity to evaluate the risks.
and decide if they are sufficiently prepared for the risk involved.
As with any high risk sport or activity their will always be accidents.

No, but any money required to rescue, or recover those who deliberately engage in these activities should be borne by the user, not the public.

Doesn't work. I lived in CO on the western slope. The front range people: Denver, Co Springs, would come over, back country ski, snowmobile, drive their Hummers, rock climb and get stuck, lost, hurt. There was a move to make their county pay our county for the S&R. Didn't fly, because the powers that be, figured the people just wouldn't call 911.
There's no regulating stupid.

U only make 2 jumps: the first one for some weird reason and the last one that you lived through. The rest are just filler.
scr 316

[grue 1]

What any consenting adult does with his or her own body should be of no concern to the government if he is not affecting the health, liberty or property of a non-consenting party.

Someone who chooses to climb a mountain that is not someone else's private property does not break those guidelines, and thus is not the business of the government… and nor is he their responsibility.

It's that simple.

cavete terrae.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

grue

What any consenting adult does with his or her own body should be of no concern to the government if he is not affecting the health, liberty or property of a non-consenting party.

Someone who chooses to climb a mountain that is not someone else's private property does not break those guidelines, and thus is not the business of the government… and nor is he their responsibility.

It's that simple.

Well, not quite.

Technology has given us GPS, so the idiots don't have to learn to navigate, clothes that allow us to survive in practically any temperature, and TV and the internet to show us how cool it is to do dangerous stuff.

So you get people who have no real experience or skill putting themselves into situations that anyone with any knowledge would know to avoid.
Then they push the "Emergency" button on their GPS tracker (sometimes just because they are tired) and the rescue guys have to put their lives at risk to get the idiots home.
And when they are out rescuing the idiots from situations and circumstances that they had no business being in, others who didn't make those same stupid mistakes have no rescue help available.

I don't have a specific solution, but I wouldn't have any issues with a certain experience level needed before being allowed to attempt certain climbs.

Emergency Beacon Misuse:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/33470581/ns/us_news-life/t/tired-hike-rescuers-fear-yuppie/

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Phillbo 11]

Calvin19

***Isn't skydiving already regulated? You can't just show up at a DZ and jump without a license.

Legally, No. Anyone with a legal aircraft, legal pilot, and legal equipment in legal airspace can make a parachute jump. Industry regulation keeps the sport in check.


Doesn't 'legal' = regulated?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

jackwallace

******After mount Rainier and the news of 5 dead on mount Blanc.
Should in your opinion mountain climbing or risky sports be regulated.

My opinion is No, if someone wants to climb a mountain, scuba dive or skydive or any activity
involving risks then the owness is on the person or persons partaking in said activity to evaluate the risks.
and decide if they are sufficiently prepared for the risk involved.
As with any high risk sport or activity their will always be accidents.

No, but any money required to rescue, or recover those who deliberately engage in these activities should be borne by the user, not the public.

Doesn't work. I lived in CO on the western slope. The front range people: Denver, Co Springs, would come over, back country ski, snowmobile, drive their Hummers, rock climb and get stuck, lost, hurt. There was a move to make their county pay our county for the S&R. Didn't fly, because the powers that be, figured the people just wouldn't call 911.
There's no regulating stupid.

I don't mean recovering from another county. I mean recovering from those who got rescued directly. And if they chose not to call 911 and die; Well, isn't this a thread about adults making their own decisions and being responsible for them?

[SethInMI 174]

SkyDekker

I don't mean recovering from another county. I mean recovering from those who got rescued directly. And if they chose not to call 911 and die; Well, isn't this a thread about adults making their own decisions and being responsible for them?

The problem with that is often the most irresponsible are irresponsible in financial areas, i.e., they have little money, and it would be expensive to try and get it from them. Hospitals have the same problems with the uninsured, they just end up eating a lot of the costs.

[actually I don't know that there is a correlation between the two, but the fact is there are a lot of those who can't afford a rescue]

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[SkyDekker 1,465]

SethInMI

***

I don't mean recovering from another county. I mean recovering from those who got rescued directly. And if they chose not to call 911 and die; Well, isn't this a thread about adults making their own decisions and being responsible for them?

The problem with that is often the most irresponsible are irresponsible in financial areas, i.e., they have little money, and it would be expensive to try and get it from them. Hospitals have the same problems with the uninsured, they just end up eating a lot of the costs.

[actually I don't know that there is a correlation between the two, but the fact is there are a lot of those who can't afford a rescue]

So basically we don't want to make responsible for their actions. We like to say that we do, as long as we can call somebody to come and get us when we fuck up.....

[wmw999 2,451]

Regulations should help to preserve the environment being used; trash, cutting initials, keeping on the path in delicate areas are all good ideas.

I spent a week hiking last month, and reading Appalachian Mountain Club accident reports. Too often now, they can be summarized as: people go out ill-prepared in some way, call 911, get rescued at tens to hundreds of man-hours of effort.

Those people who didn't need rescue probably just thought they were cool because they didn't have to carry all that silly rain or cold weather gear.

The state of New Hampshire is trying to set up a hiker insurance card, where for some fairly nominal fee you can be rescued without being charged for the privilege. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Calvin19 0]

Phillbo

******Isn't skydiving already regulated? You can't just show up at a DZ and jump without a license.

Legally, No. Anyone with a legal aircraft, legal pilot, and legal equipment in legal airspace can make a parachute jump. Industry regulation keeps the sport in check.


Doesn't 'legal' = regulated?

The context of the question was about the parachutist' themselves, who are not regulated by laws. DZOs and USPA rules are not laws. I have done many parachute jumps including teaching friends to skydive(who later received licenses) or just prep them for BASE jumping without an established DZ and without USPA. At the time I had no USPA instructional ratings and the students held no USPA licenses or USPA insurance. These were all 100% legal jumps.

No, you can't just show up to a DZ and jump without a "license", but the FAA does not regulate this. Parachutists and parachute instructors are self regulated by the USPA. From a practical standpoint any "unlicensed" person with a legal pilot, aircraft and parachute in legal airspace can go skydiving.

The skydiving infrastructure is in place to make it easy and safe for people to learn to skydive and continue to skydive, but an established drop zone is not a legal requirement to go skydiving, it just makes it convenient.

[Calvin19 0]

wolfriverjoe

***What any consenting adult does with his or her own body should be of no concern to the government if he is not affecting the health, liberty or property of a non-consenting party.

Someone who chooses to climb a mountain that is not someone else's private property does not break those guidelines, and thus is not the business of the government… and nor is he their responsibility.

It's that simple.

Well, not quite.

Technology has given us GPS, so the idiots don't have to learn to navigate, clothes that allow us to survive in practically any temperature, and TV and the internet to show us how cool it is to do dangerous stuff.

So you get people who have no real experience or skill putting themselves into situations that anyone with any knowledge would know to avoid.
Then they push the "Emergency" button on their GPS tracker (sometimes just because they are tired) and the rescue guys have to put their lives at risk to get the idiots home.
And when they are out rescuing the idiots from situations and circumstances that they had no business being in, others who didn't make those same stupid mistakes have no rescue help available.

I don't have a specific solution, but I wouldn't have any issues with a certain experience level needed before being allowed to attempt certain climbs.

Emergency Beacon Misuse:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/33470581/ns/us_news-life/t/tired-hike-rescuers-fear-yuppie/

I have been part of several back country rescues from skiing and BASE jumping, and after talks with rescue pilots and rescue crew about the 'yuppie 911' I learned that they are worried about it. Just like that article said, it is an issue of people with no training or experience going out into the shit knowing/assuming that they will be quickly rescued if they push the button on their SPOT or similar device.

When I go out into the mountains for skiing or jumping, we always have radios, cell phones, or Sat phones so we can discuss the situation with rescue personnel if something does go wrong.

On one incident a friend crashed on a BASE jump injuring his back. He pushed his "save me!" button on his SPOT. Our ground crew was able to call 911, discuss the location in depth and then put us in contact with helicopters and ground crew, coordinating the best and safest response. Myself and the other jumper were able to climb the 1800' ridge to get to our injured friend, stabilize him, then wait for and assist the heli long line EMT in the pluck. After he was airlifted out (by 4 blackhawks from the Army Guard who had been on a practice mission in the area) the civilian rescue coordinator wanted to send two more birds in to pick us up, assuming we were ignorant and couldn't navigate back to the LZ. I told him to fuck off, and in later talks with the heli crew they thanked me for that and all of us for a preparedness and knowledge of what to do in that kind of situation.

Of course, we were all insured for backcountry rescue as EVERYONE should be that puts themselves in a situation where it might be needed. Heli rescues are not cheap.