helldog 0 #1 November 11, 2004 I've been demoing canopies for about 2 months now and have settled in on either a Sabre2 190 or a Pilot 188. I'm looking for input from anyone who has flown both before making a final decision. Blues Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fab 0 #2 November 11, 2004 have flown both but like the pilot more...that's just a personal choice....I hear people saying that the pilot has nicer openings then the sabre2..sabre2 is a little more elliptical then the pilot I think... Have you demoed both canopies? Which do you prefer? They are both good chutes... _______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evelyn 0 #3 November 11, 2004 I demoed both the Sabre 2 and the Pilot before deciding on the Pilot. The reason I chose the Pilot is because I'm not very good at landing and my landings were much better with the Pilot. A coach I was working with during the time I was demoing the Sabre 2 said it was "too much canopy for me". Life is either a daring adventure or nothing ~ Helen Keller Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #4 November 11, 2004 I demoed a sabre2-170 but chose a Pilot-168. I much preferred the Pilot's openings, so I bought the Pilot. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #5 November 11, 2004 They are both fine canopies. I jump a Sabre2 (97)in my wingsuit rig and love it. My wife owns two Pilots (124's). She had two sizes of Sabre2's before deciding she liked the Pilot better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #6 November 12, 2004 I've flown both. I like the Pilot a little better, but they are both good canopies. BTW question to everyone else - is it just me, or does this question get asked about once a week? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #7 November 12, 2004 Seems that way. The Pilot appears to be exciting a hell of a lot of interest in the States. Is the interest shown on dz.com matched on the dropzones? Are Pilots selling like hotcakes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DancingFlame 0 #8 November 12, 2004 Tried both, liked Pilot more than Sabre2. Openings are considerably better and on-heading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TOT 0 #9 November 12, 2004 QuoteIs the interest shown on dz.com matched on the dropzones? Are Pilots selling like hotcakes? kinda... On our DZ there were 2 people that bought brand new canopies thius summer. One was a Sabre2 and the other a Pilot. Oops sorry 3 people, the other was a velocity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #10 November 12, 2004 Pilot/Safire 2/Sabre2 I'm undecided between the Pilot and the Safire... the Sabre 2 (in my opinion only!) is inferior to the other two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #11 November 12, 2004 My sales on Pilots are up and Sabre2 down only slightly. Both are great canopies. It really is wonderful to have so many good, solid choices. It makes my job easy. Either way they go, I end up with a saticfied customer! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
helldog 0 #12 November 12, 2004 havent demoed the pilot yet but love the sabre 2 compared to anything else ive jumped. I'm have some trouble getting a pilot to demo. (nick from aerodyne was great at getting me a triathlon out but hasn't got back to me on the pilot. I know they'll be out at the holiday boogie but I'd like to get something before I go on vacation (San Diego, Vegas Baby!, and Eloy). Blues Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #13 November 12, 2004 >Are Pilots selling like hotcakes? When Aerodyne stops at a DZ, they end up selling a bunch of their demos - which is a nice problem to have, not being able to keep demos in stock. I'm glad the Pilot is doing well; they had some troubles with the Vision and A-Max initially. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickB 0 #14 November 12, 2004 Jim, I would like to apologize for not being able to get you a Pilot 188 demo yet. I have been on the road quite a bit and have just gotten back in the office. You are next on my list for a Pilot 188 demo, but as you can tell, this is a very popular canopy and all of my demos are out at this time. I should have one returning very soon, which I will gladly send to you. As far as Bill Von Novak's reply in that we sell our demos, this actually isn't true. We have sold some old stock color patterns at certain events, but I try to keep all of my demos, because to be honest with you, it is such a popular canopy that I need all of the demos I have. I will be in touch with you shortly by email to set you up with my next 188 demo. Regards, Nick Nick Bosco Sales Representative North & South America Aerodyne Research Corporation 12649 Race Track Road Tampa, FL 33626 Tel. +1 813 891-6300 Fax. +1 813 891-6315 Mobile +1 813 679-7190 n.bosco@aerodyne-int.com www.aerodyne-int.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjrod 0 #15 November 13, 2004 Nick, Is there any chance there will be a Pilot 230 in the future? I was advised by Aubrey Easterlin that the Solo was the same canopy, but a hybrid, Your thoughts or input are appreciated. Thanks, miguel<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickB 0 #16 November 15, 2004 Aubrey's statement on this is correct. The Solo is the same airfoil as the Pilot, only it is built with a hybrid construction. The main reason why we have done this is for ease of packing. The flight characteristics are the same and the openings are still the same sweet openings the Pilot is known for. As far as if we will produce a 230 Pilot, I will have to check with our engineers on that. I'm not quite sure that the demand is there for something like that. A lot of people have a misconception on using "F-111" for the bottom skin thinking that this will affect the flight characteristics of larger canopies. The best thing I can suggest to you would be to get in touch with me and let me send you a Solo demo. I can assure you, you will be please with how the canopy performs in all aspects, from opening to flight. Regards Nick Bosco Sales Representative North & South America Aerodyne Research Corporation 12649 Race Track Road Tampa, FL 33626 Tel. +1 813 891-6300 Fax. +1 813 891-6315 Mobile +1 813 679-7190 n.bosco@aerodyne-int.com www.aerodyne-int.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #17 November 16, 2004 My progression: Navigator/Raider (29) Sabre 170 (4) Sabre2 150 (250) Sabre2 135 (14) Pilot 132 (20) Pilot 124 (50) I like the Pilot for its awesome openings (partly due to the gigantic slider) and its consistency. I don't have to roll the nose or do anything special while packing to slow it down or to soften the opening. I love the colored packing tabs which help me when pro-packing ensure the line groups are separated in order to prevent a lineover. I jump the Pilot with my Classic Bird-Man suit and have had no problems at all. I like the landings as well. If I want a slow docile landing, I just ensure my approach is the standard approach. If I want to add some speed, I add a little front riser turn to build up some speed for a zippier landing. I really liked my Sabre 2 canopies but I have completely fallen in love with my Pilot. I own 2 of them because the price was so incredibly reasonable as well! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueEyedMonster 0 #18 November 16, 2004 I demo'd both a Pilot 150 and a Sabre2 150. The Pilot opened much softer and on heading more often. Plus it doesn't need any special packing techniques. (such as rolling the nose or anything) The Sabre2 openings were almost violent. I purchased the Pilot... I can say I am very VERY happy with it. And, I very happy that I had a choice other than the Sabre2. Thank you Aerodyne. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airline3 0 #19 November 16, 2004 What I found is that the Pilot and Saber2 are totally different canopies, the Saber2 is a higher performance canopy. The Saber 2 has more flare at the bottom end. Some people are just not ready for a higher performance canopy. The pilot is a much more docile canopy. It just depends on what your looking for in a canopy. You can't judge the performance of a canopy just by the turn rate, if you could a Stiletto would be higher performance than a Velocity . I think thats why people are comparing the Pilot and Saber2, they have a similar turn rate. On packing the Saber2, if you were rolling the nose and doing "special" stuff to it you were just making it open bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #20 November 16, 2004 Can you explain how one would be considered more high performance than the other? Like you said its not just based on turn speed. So what is it, I'm curious, that makes one more hi-perf. More nuetral static flight airspeed? Trimmed for higher rate of descent? Better flare at slower flight? I think they are marketed to the same skydiver demographic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JumpRu 14 #21 November 16, 2004 i made 1 jump on a pilot and 2 on sabre2, both are great (compared to my old sabers), i like pilot opening better it was as soft at crossfire but completely on heading like specter. I can’t say much about in flight performance due to relatively low WL on both but I do remember that pilot sweet spot was lower them PD. Does Pilot have F111 ribs? Fabric there felt a little different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #22 November 17, 2004 Quote Can you explain how one would be considered more high performance than the other? Like you said its not just based on turn speed. So what is it, I'm curious, that makes one more hi-perf. More nuetral static flight airspeed? Trimmed for higher rate of descent? Better flare at slower flight? I think they are marketed to the same skydiver demographic. I know nothing, but I have heard that a skilled pilot can get a pretty decent swoop out of a Sabre2. Is the same true for a Pilot? Maybe this is the performance difference being referred to...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fffff 0 #23 November 17, 2004 You can make very nice swoops with the Pilot, it builds up good speed when making a frontriser turn and has a nice powerful flare. The pilot can be as fast as a Stiletto only the openings are nicer. ------------------------------------------------ NIL VOLENTIBUS ARDUUM. (nothing is difficult for those who really want it) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #24 November 17, 2004 > What I found is that the Pilot and Saber2 are totally different canopies, > the Saber2 is a higher performance canopy. The Saber 2 has more flare > at the bottom end. My experience is that the Pilot has a better bottom end flare, but the Sabre has a slightly longer recovery arc, making hook turns a little safer to set up. (someone else said) >Can you explain how one would be considered more high performance than the other? There are many ways. A more steeply trimmed canopy will land better but will not glide as far; many swooping canopies have such a characteristic. A longer recovery arc means you can start the swoop higher and hold more speed for landing. A line geometry change can reduce front-riser pressure which can help with front riser turns, and can also affect rear-riser flare characteristics (these are often used to plane out for long distances.) A cathedraling change (via line length) can affect stability, openings and glide distance. There are a great many variables. In _general_ a high performance canopy (as the term is commonly used) is a canopy that flies efficiently when heavily loaded, has a long recovery arc, and has a good flare stroke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psychoswooper 2 #25 November 18, 2004 Many jumpers at our DZ -Tallahassee FL --have jumped both canopies. That is: Pilots and Sabre 2's. The general concensus seems to be. Pilot opens much better & turns faster. Sanre 2 is a bit easier to land regardless of technique. General overall preference is for the Pilots. We have available for demo purposes a Pilot 210, Pilot 188 & Pilot 168, as well as a vision 117 and if you need a slightly bigger canopy, a Solo 230. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
