Pilot vs. Sabre2

[VectorBoy 0]

(someone else said)
>Can you explain how one would be considered more high performance than the other?

There are many ways. A more steeply trimmed canopy will land better but will not glide as far; many swooping canopies have such a characteristic. A longer recovery arc means you can start the swoop higher and hold more speed for landing. A line geometry change can reduce front-riser pressure which can help with front riser turns, and can also affect rear-riser flare characteristics (these are often used to plane out for long distances.) A cathedraling change (via line length) can affect stability, openings and glide distance. There are a great many variables. In _general_ a high performance canopy (as the term is commonly used) is a canopy that flies efficiently when heavily loaded, has a long recovery arc, and has a good flare stroke.

[phoenixlpr 0]

I think you are going offtopic.

[meandean 0]

Soft smooth on heading openings are charactersitics that almost everybody wants in every canopy ( with the exception of reserves and CReW canopies) regardless of its intended market pro or beginner.
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Why wouldn't you want soft smooth on heading openings with a CRW canopy?

[jumpwally 0]

You are right it does get asked alot. I think its the amount of ads out there,their marketing style and other eye catching stuff from Arodyne. Also look at the jump numbers of those asking..with all the people doing them selves in on the tiny,hot,cool gotta have -what-they-have canopies,,,some folks look to seperate themselves from that group by asking about diff canopies to get them in an opposite direction.Plus, alot of folks don't really understand the search features available here. My next canopy will be a Pilot ;-) wally

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[Kris 0]

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Why wouldn't you want soft smooth on heading openings with a CRW canopy?

On Heading, Yes. Smooth, Yes. Soft, No.

When doing CRW you want to be open as fast as possible out the door. Hell, I know some CRW dogs that would kite their mains out of the back of aircraft if given half a chance.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[dgskydive 0]

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Is the interest shown on dz.com matched on the dropzones? Are Pilots selling like hotcakes?

I think they are. Aerodyne has done a great job with the Pilot. The Sabre2 is also agreat canopy, but I have to agree with most people here, it opens better then the Sabre2.

Evelyn's story is not unique. Lot's of people have better landings with the Pilot then they ever got on a Sabre2. Lot's have been diehard PD fans and switched. That has to tell you something,

Dom

[VectorBoy 0]

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Why wouldn't you want soft smooth on heading openings with a CRW canopy?

[VectorBoy 0]

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I think you are going offtopic.

Yes I apologise. Its just confusing to hear Hi-performance used to define some characteristics of one canopy over another.

[meandean 0]

When doing CRW you want to be open as fast as possible out the door.
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it depends on where you are in the formation. Besides, I still want a soft opening, even if it is a little fast. Depends on what your comparing it to. (sabre 1s haha)

[helldog 0]

Thanks to everyone for the input. That said I finally had the opportunity to jump the Pilot 188 this weekend. Its the nicest opening canopy I have tried. Slow and soft even better than the 2 spectres I demoed. However the flare on the Sabre 2 felt far more responsive than the Pilot. As some have commented the Pilot seems to have a flare that is much lower in the stroke than a Sabre 2. For me that will not work. At first I thought the break lines were too long (which our master rigger said was the case.) But even shortening them( by wrapping them in my hand) didn't produce the same pressure that the Sabre 2 seemed to have at the top end.
Blues
Jim

[Jackpunx 0]

So.. I did s a search on this...I need to decide exactly this...
I just got to my 1.1 wing load.. my first canopy at 1.1 was the sabre2 190... my next will be the pilot 188..
I tried the pilot 210 and liked it better than the sabre..
because I was not at 1.1 .. was it still apples and oranges?
thanks

[darrenspooner 0]

I have a Sabre 2 150 and have done about 40 jumps on it. Openings are horrendous, all over the place, one time resulting in a mal and cutaway. I've done 7 demo jumps on Pilot 188 and 150 and they were far far better on opening, but not quite as nice to fly. I mean, I don't know anything with my jump numbers and I don't do anything other than straight in landings, but my Sabre feels zippier, turns better and swoops longer (not that I swoop, but flares for longer).

If the truth be known, I'd feel safer with a Pilot during opening, but safer with a Sabre 2 once its opened.

[mattjw916 2]

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Openings are horrendous, all over the place,

That was my experience with the 2 190s and 210 that I jumped. Sure the Sabre 2 has great flare and all, but I'd go with a Pilot just based on the openings alone if I had to choose between them.

In reality, I'd go with choice "C", none of the above, and demo a Safire 2, Lotus or Fusion if I had to choose a canopy in that class.

My $0.02.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[FrogNog 1]

I got used to the (sometimes weird) openings on my old Sabre2 150 and then I liked them. I think my new 170 doesn't do that, but I haven't jumped it enough to remember (everyone is always renting it from me so I don't get to jump it).

How many jumps are on all these weird-opening Sabre2 linesets? I believe the Sabre2 150 I was jumping had 700 jumps with no replacement and everything had shrunk all wonky.

Now when my canopy (Hornet 190 - wants to be a Sabre2 when it grows up) is spinning right after inflation I check for closed end-cells and give it a full 360 before I start to worry. Meanwhile I'm looking around for the rest of my load, of course. Usually it just wants to fly a little on its own before I take over.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[kelpdiver 2]

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In reality, I'd go with choice "C", none of the above, and demo a Safire 2, Lotus or Fusion if I had to choose a canopy in that class.

Matt, you'd group the Fusion with the others, ahead of the Pilot/Sabre2?

I rented one a bit last year before getting the rig, thought it was fine, but didn't stand out. However, this was a 230 with a non collapsable PC, so I associated it in that camp. Worth adding to the demo list in the spring?

[justinb138 0]

I'd say give the Firebolt a try as well. I put a few jumps on one this last weekend and was quite pleased with it.

It flew pretty similar to the Sabre2, but the openings were better, although it was more sensitive to body position.

Having tried the Sabre2, Safire2, Silhouette, and Firebolt I'm most pleased with the Firebolt, but I'd be happy to fly any of them anytime.

• Quote

[nate_1979 9]

I had a fusion before I got my current canopy (somewhere around 100 jumps on it) ... I really liked it, before selling it I did a jump with a bunch of weight on to see how it would perform at higher loading, was a fun canopy, although all the extra weight was uncomfortable in the harness Sold my fusion to Grue, might ask him what he thinks

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[mattjw916 2]

FWIW, I know a lot of people that think the Sabre 2 openings are fine. It's a good canopy with a powerful flare, but the openings were all over the place. It opens rather quick too which exacerbates the tendancy for it to yank you around the sky. The ones I jumped were not ragged out, but they weren't new either, I'd say 300-400 jump range since the lines were still pretty bright. Since they have Spectra lines, they could very well have been out of trim. But all 3 I jumped opened essentially the same and I have about 50 jumps on them IIRC, too lazy to break out the logbook.

As for the Fusion, maybe the light loading and std PC was hamstringing its performance. It's basically a detuned Nitro(n) which is a badass canopy IMO, so it has potential. I certainly wouldn't discount it.

Personally, I say fly what you like and suits your personal flying style. I know a few people that sold their Sabre 2s for Pilots so they can't be bad. They are pretty mellow from what I hear and I like a more responsive canopy. I'm still not a big fan of Spectra either. I like my canopy to be in trim, period.

Nothing beats demoing for finding out which canopy is the "right" one. Don't take my word for it.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[jumpwally 0]

I'll add this to the mix,,how about Pilot vs Silouhette?
or should it be Solo vs Silouhette? Any one?

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[Praetorian 1]

not directly on point to your question.. I'm just curious why a Lotus was not on your list, I'm wondering if this is because you tried one and have ruled it out, or because you never tried one.. either way I'm curious why

Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad
judgment.

[Superman32 0]

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I'll add this to the mix,,how about Pilot vs Silouhette?

I remember talking to the late Egon Sussman, about a good canopy for a beginner, and he said that a Silhoette loaded around 1:1 was on of the best canopies out. Remember that most of the lift comes from the top skin which is ZP.
Most of my few jumps were done on Silhoette, and I really liked them. Packing is a hell of a lot easier too.

Inveniam Viam aut Faciam
I'm back biatches!

[justinb138 0]

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I'll add this to the mix,,how about Pilot vs Silouhette?

I remember talking to the late Egon Sussman, about a good canopy for a beginner, and he said that a Silhoette loaded around 1:1 was on of the best canopies out. Remember that most of the lift comes from the top skin which is ZP.
Most of my few jumps were done on Silhoette, and I really liked them. Packing is a hell of a lot easier too.

I've jumped one loaded around 1.1 and really liked it as well. The flare seemed a little weaker than a Sabre2 of the same size, but it landed great, even on no-wind days. Toggle pressure was lighter on the Silhouette, but riser turns were easier on the Sabre2.

[Jackpunx 0]

Im going to try the pilot at 1.1 this weekend..
My experience last week was. the Sabre2 opened great.. More consistant then the pilot.. (both demos/rentals).. they could have had line issues .. Not sure.. Im new guy..lol..
The sabre turned great in the air.. but I liked the landing of the pilot better..
keep in mind.. I used the sabre at 1.1 (190) I used the pilot the week before on a 210.. so I'll see what is different when I get the pilot to 1.1
the landings are much faster though.. I dont think I can slow them down.. I just need to control them as I come in.. the first couple jumps were with no wind.. the last one was with 14-15 mphcross wind.. all but my fisrt were stand ups.. I came in fast.. felt it tilt to the left a little.. instead of putting my hand down to catch me.. I rode it in.. I was off balance so I just put my legs out and did a 20' slide on the grass.. (early in the morning .. wet grass)..
The angle was much flatter on the sabre.. the pilot felt a little more ground hungry and when I flaired it seemed to have more lift..
Am I feeling this right.. or just to in experienced to know better.
thanks

[brabzzz 0]

Demo'd Pilot 150s and put a couple of hundred of jumps on my Sabre2 170.

I normally bitch about the crappy opening of my Sabre 2...but i'm sure it's partly my packing. I've had some silky smooth on-heading openings occaionally (especially when others pack), but I can count those occasions on one hand.

The Pilot was indeed a nice canopy, but I preffered the flare of the Sabre 2, which really seems to go on forever comapred to the Pilots. The pilot flew/turned faster, but I'm putting that down to the size difference...in flight and flare, I rate the sabre 2 better...for openings the Pilot was nicer.

There...slightly unfair comparison... In the UK at least, I'd go Sab2 for resale value alone.

edit: on the few subterminal/wingsuit deployments i've had, i could not even feel the sabre 2 opening. obviously unlike the time i forgot to quarter the slider...

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Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club
www.skydivebristoluni.com

[Fab 0]

I can add that the pilot also packs easier then a brand new sabre2. I just tried packing mine for the first time...@_$*&#*&*@@@@

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