quade 4 #1 August 1, 2013 Do people ever think before creating these? https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1004895_10151600165613460_527222206_n.jpg I sure as hell wouldn't build a monument to myself using slave labor.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #2 August 1, 2013 Quote The Greeks, many years after the event, believed that the pyramids must have been built by slave labor. Archaeologists now believe that the Great Pyramid of Giza (at least) was built by tens of thousands of skilled workers who camped near the pyramids and worked for a salary . . . Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_techniques For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rifleman 70 #3 August 2, 2013 BBC docudrama about the building of the Great Pyramid. Was hoping it was on iPlayer but can only find it on YouTube split into 6 parts. Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwiic6BoleQ Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv5L5yyPynM Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uBC0iKB61s Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a4VeaEvRM8 Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTTj7AUBz_E Part 6 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL-xehm-eLgAtheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #4 August 2, 2013 DiverMikeQuote The Greeks, many years after the event, believed that the pyramids must have been built by slave labor. Archaeologists now believe that the Great Pyramid of Giza (at least) was built by tens of thousands of skilled workers who camped near the pyramids and worked for a salary . . . Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_techniques Sounds like a jobs program.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #5 August 2, 2013 Aliens......I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #6 August 3, 2013 If the pyramids were built by slaves, how could they possibly have been controlled without modern weapons? They would have had to have at least half as many keepers (to work shifts, 24/7) to control them with swords, spears and arrows. How would any culture be so wealthy as to be able to feed, clothe and house such a huge number of non-productive people? Given that a number of construction engineers (including my brother) who have visited the Giza plateau have stated flatly that we do not have the technology to build the Great Pyramid today, the slave theory is totally debunked. (For example, how were the shafts cut through tons of stone with such extraordinary precision, and with no tool marks?)"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #7 August 3, 2013 You discredit humanity's innate ability to cower in the face of perceived authority. 1 Guard with a toothpick, 100,000 slaves going about their business.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldwomanc6 52 #8 August 3, 2013 popsjumperYou discredit humanity's innate ability to cower in the face of perceived authority. 1 Guard with a toothpick, 100,000 slaves going about their business. Especially, after a few generations of being born into it.lisa WSCR 594 FB 1023 CBDB 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #9 August 3, 2013 You discredit humanity's inate gullibility to swallow wholesale any half baked theory stuffed down their throats in gradeschool--unquestioned after all these years despite towering evidence to the contrary."Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #10 August 3, 2013 oldwomanc6***You discredit humanity's innate ability to cower in the face of perceived authority. 1 Guard with a toothpick, 100,000 slaves going about their business. Especially, after a few generations of being born into it. ........................................................................... What if they had dozens of teams from different villages? What if those teams were competing to see who could build the most, the most precisely? What if they were competing for the "greater glory of God?" What if they could not distinguish between gods and pharohs? What if they were competing for the phaoroh's favor? What if the phaoroh's favor included economic benefits in the form of tax dollars returned to their village sin the form of bridges or irrigation canals? What if those teams were competing/building for a few months out of every year, during the agricultural "off season?" What if they brought their own food? What if they built during the flood season, so that they could float rafts anywhere they wanted? What f they used flood waters to power winches and cranes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #11 August 3, 2013 >Given that a number of construction engineers (including my brother) who have visited >the Giza plateau have stated flatly that we do not have the technology to build the >Great Pyramid today . . . Agreed - but we did back then. The same story has been repeated dozens of times. "Those ancients were clueless; they never could have done X without our modern technology!" Then they do some research and it turns out they actually weren't as clueless as we think they are. Look at some of the steel weapons made in China in 500 AD. How did they make swords so strong that could hold an edge as well as they did? Turns out they used carbon nanotubes to increase the carbon content of the steel. People a dozen centuries ago using carbon nanotubes? Impossible! Yet they made it work. It's something of a modern conceit to think that "if we couldn't do it today, no one else could have done it, ever." But over millennia of civilization, it's a fair bet that we've forgotten a whole lot of technology, technology that to us now looks like magic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldwomanc6 52 #12 August 4, 2013 riggerrob ******You discredit humanity's innate ability to cower in the face of perceived authority. 1 Guard with a toothpick, 100,000 slaves going about their business. Especially, after a few generations of being born into it. ........................................................................... What if they had dozens of teams from different villages? What if those teams were competing to see who could build the most, the most precisely? What if they were competing for the "greater glory of God?" What if they could not distinguish between gods and pharohs? What if they were competing for the phaoroh's favor? What if the phaoroh's favor included economic benefits in the form of tax dollars returned to their village sin the form of bridges or irrigation canals? What if those teams were competing/building for a few months out of every year, during the agricultural "off season?" What if they brought their own food? What if they built during the flood season, so that they could float rafts anywhere they wanted? What f they used flood waters to power winches and cranes? WOW! That, there is a lot of what-ifs! Frankly, I don't know if the pyramids were built by slaves, and to what extent (and probably no one else does either). I was was merely agreeing with popsjumper in regards to slave behavior/mentality. Virtually every ancient society (and plenty of not-so-ancient) had slaves to one extent or another. History shows that slaves rarely become non-slaves, no matter how much they outnumber the owners. AFAIK, no ancient society, that was wealthy enough to build monuments of any kind, didn't rely heavily on slave labor to get it done. Heck, it might really have been aliens. lisa WSCR 594 FB 1023 CBDB 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #13 August 4, 2013 There is no evidence whatsoever that the builders of the Great Pyramind ever used or held slaves. Hypotheses such as this one merely demonstrate a lack of imagination. Our Western hubris assumes that no prior civilization had technologies superior to ours. We also assume, despite the rapacity of Western Civilization, that our social mores are superior. This from a civilization that killed 50 million people in World War II! As long as we are engaging in idle conjucture here, let me propose an alternative hypothesis, one for which there is actual evidence: the Great Pyramind is far older than has been previously thought, and was not built by the Egyptians. You might also want to offer a suggestion as to how many slaves it must have taken to set the foundation stones for the monument at Baalbek, several which have been calculated to weigh over 2500 tons (five MILLION pounds)! Presently there is no machine on earth that could move them, let alone transport them miles overland from where they were quarried."Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rifleman 70 #14 August 4, 2013 The books of Christian Jacq, particularly the Rameses series or the Stone of Light series are very good. Rameses is 5 books and deals with the life of the pharoah while The Stone of Light is based around documentary evidence found at Deir al-Madinah. Egypt was largely free of money for a great portion of its history, trade being carried out by means of a barter system with tariffs being set by the government.Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #15 August 4, 2013 Thanks. I will check them out."Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #16 August 4, 2013 billvon>Given that a number of construction engineers (including my brother) who have visited >the Giza plateau have stated flatly that we do not have the technology to build the >Great Pyramid today . . . Agreed - but we did back then. Please elaborate. That sounds hard to believe. We send people to the moon strapped to rockets, and there are structures all over the world that are much taller and wider than these pyramids. What am I missing - why couldn't we build a giant pyramid?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,499 #17 August 4, 2013 The111***>Given that a number of construction engineers (including my brother) who have visited >the Giza plateau have stated flatly that we do not have the technology to build the >Great Pyramid today . . . Agreed - but we did back then. Please elaborate. That sounds hard to believe. We send people to the moon strapped to rockets, and there are structures all over the world that are much taller and wider than these pyramids. What am I missing - why couldn't we build a giant pyramid? I think Bill's point is that we no longer have the same technology that they had. The craftsmanship and techniques needed to do those things when the most powerful engine you have available is a team of oxen and your strongest crane is made of wood. That accumulated knowledge has been lost because we do things differently, not because we aren't as good.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #18 August 5, 2013 quadeDo people ever think before creating these? https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1004895_10151600165613460_527222206_n.jpg I sure as hell wouldn't build a monument to myself using slave labor. Do people ever stop and consider other possibilities before they assume?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #19 August 5, 2013 turtlespeed***Do people ever think before creating these? https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1004895_10151600165613460_527222206_n.jpg I sure as hell wouldn't build a monument to myself using slave labor. Do people ever stop and consider other possibilities before they assume? Well, the pyramids were absolutely monuments to the kings, that's not in question at all. The only viable questions raised in this thread is the paid vs slave labor force. While there is no doubt some of the individuals were highly skilled engineers, there should also be no doubt that at least a portion of the work force, the physical labor used to move the stone, were by and large indentured servants, otherwise known as slaves. You can try to dress that up anyway you want, but they were still slaves. Other "possibilities" such as an alien technology . . . well, that's simply ridiculous.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #20 August 5, 2013 >That sounds hard to believe. We send people to the moon strapped to rockets, and >there are structures all over the world that are much taller and wider than these >pyramids. What am I missing - why couldn't we build a giant pyramid? We could! But it would be built via very different methods. We have powered cranes, and carefully characterized concrete, and steel rebar, and power tools. That's all a form of technology. There are a great many puzzling details to it (i.e. "how can concrete support tension loads? It's terrible in tension!" "How can you pump concrete 50 floors up? The pressures required would be enormous, and then you'd have the concrete in the pump solidify!") All those problems have been worked out over the years. They had different technologies. They used animal and people as power. They used greased axles and rollers to move things. They used quarried stone to build with. Again there are a great many puzzling details to it ("How'd they drill those holes? How'd they move those massive blocks? How did they get such perfect right angles in rock?") They were worked out over the years, but we have forgotten those technological skills because we don't need them any more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #21 August 5, 2013 quade ******Do people ever think before creating these? https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1004895_10151600165613460_527222206_n.jpg I sure as hell wouldn't build a monument to myself using slave labor. Do people ever stop and consider other possibilities before they assume? Well, the pyramids were absolutely monuments to the kings, that's not in question at all. The only viable questions raised in this thread is the paid vs slave labor force. While there is no doubt some of the individuals were highly skilled engineers, there should also be no doubt that at least a portion of the work force, the physical labor used to move the stone, were by and large indentured servants, otherwise known as slaves. You can try to dress that up anyway you want, but they were still slaves. Other "possibilities" such as an alien technology . . . well, that's simply ridiculous. I wasn't meaning Alien Tech . . .I was considering more like volunteers. It seems more plausible.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #22 August 5, 2013 turtlespeed I wasn't meaning Alien Tech . . .I was considering more like volunteers. Yes, yes, they "volunteered" to move the stone in exchange for not being whipped or otherwise harmed. Yes . . . "volunteered." That is a possible word for it and in some cases sort of true. Better to "volunteer" to be a slave than destitute and without -any- food or shelter, but it's slavery none-the-less. http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/slavery.htmquade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #23 August 5, 2013 quade ***I wasn't meaning Alien Tech . . .I was considering more like volunteers. Yes, yes, they "volunteered" to move the stone in exchange for not being whipped or otherwise harmed. Yes . . . "volunteered." Assume assume assume . . . You know you wanted this in SC - so - here ya go . . . Extremist Muslims blow themselves, their women, and their children up for a religious cause . . . moving a few rocks doesn't seem like all that much of a problem.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #24 August 5, 2013 You, uh, do realize the pyramids weren't built by anyone who ever called themselves "Muslim"; right? That the religion of Islam didn't exist at that time.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 221 #25 August 5, 2013 quadeYou, uh, do realize the pyramids weren't built by anyone who ever called themselves "Muslim"; right? That the religion of Islam didn't exist at that time. Yes. You do realize that there were other religions at that time.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
