Nataly 38 #1 July 18, 2013 I know a lot of people on here are instructors or teachers or managers... I work with someone who DOES NOT UNDERSTAND the reports she is producing... Trouble is, it's an integral part of her job (ie: she is reporting on the very things that she is working on...). Her role is not going to change, and we are not going to replace her, so I am looking for ideas on how to explain these reports to her so she will finally "get it." (Note she has been fucking up the reporting for almost two years now... ) I have tried simplifying the format/interface of the reports. I have tried explaining the principles behind the reports. I have tried explaining the detail behind the reports. I have put together a powerpoint presentation that shows "visually" how the reports work and what their purpose is. I have tried giving similar examples in "real life" to make the things easier to grasp. I have asked *her* to explain them to me in her own words (she does, and it's coherent and then one week later she will ask me a new question that shows she does NOT GET IT AT ALL)... Now I'm at my wit's end and out of ideas... I have tried all of this and despite her being convinced each time that "ahhhh, finally it's clear," she keeps missing important information, producing incorrect reporting, or finding new ways to fuck up things I never thought she could get wrong... I think part of the problem is that she is "afraid" of these reports and so anything to do with them and her logical thinking goes out the window... She is NOT a moron - she has a fear of numbers!!! And I don't know how to help her... Help!! "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #2 July 18, 2013 Perhaps she needs to be promoted.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingRhenquest 1 #3 July 18, 2013 Maybe she just doesn't really want to do them.I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,407 #4 July 18, 2013 >>>>she has been fucking up the reporting for almost two years now That's about a year and 11 months too much time invested in generating bad data, donchya think?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #5 July 18, 2013 Quoteshe has a fear of numbers!!! It would be worth checking her basic math skills. Her performance may have nothing to do with the reports, but instead with the inability to do math problems reliably.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #6 July 18, 2013 sundevil777Perhaps she needs to be promoted. Agreed. A corollary to The Peter Principle is that once promoted above the level of incompetence, the sky is the limit.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #7 July 18, 2013 Those of you who have said there is a problem with her math skills, that is absolutely true. And having basic math skills is essential to this part of her job... But like I stated, that part of her job will stay with her role and she is not going to be replaced. I suppose one way to counter the maths issue would be for her to follow a consistent, specific process that ensures nothing is missed... The problem is that there are too many variables to come up with a definitive check-list or flow-chart or set of if/then instructions (trust me, we have tried!!)... There *are* fundamental principles, which as I said we have explained in many different ways, without success... Where is the "frustrated" emoticon??"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bertt 0 #8 July 18, 2013 What does she understand?You don't have to outrun the bear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muffie 0 #9 July 18, 2013 Can you automate more of the reports so she's just doing data entry but no calculations? I've had to do that for a few clients and projects. Basically create Excel spreadsheets that require the user to copy and paste their data into different tabs and then extract the information needed for the calculations. You put in a control page to make sure the copy and paste worked and that things that should match do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #10 July 18, 2013 Does she understand the *coversheets* on the TPS reports? "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DcloudZ 0 #11 July 18, 2013 NatalyThose of you who have said there is a problem with her math skills, that is absolutely true. And having basic math skills is essential to this part of her job... But like I stated, that part of her job will stay with her role and she is not going to be replaced. I suppose one way to counter the maths issue would be for her to follow a consistent, specific process that ensures nothing is missed... The problem is that there are too many variables to come up with a definitive check-list or flow-chart or set of if/then instructions (trust me, we have tried!!)... There *are* fundamental principles, which as I said we have explained in many different ways, without success... Where is the "frustrated" emoticon?? Herein lies the problem... the problem is not that she is incompetent in completing the reports. The problem is that your company hired someone who is incompetent at performing a part of her mandate."Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing than a long life spent in a miserable way." -Alan Watts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madhatter 0 #12 July 18, 2013 Have you tried dropping the ball in her court? Tell her you need a report stating x, y & z (whatever the criteria might be as encompassed in the current reports) and see what she comes up with. Sometimes people have their own way of digesting and then regurgitating information. Myself, if I don't understand what a client needs in a report, I can't compile it (I do reports on compliance training in various fields for multiple clients with thousands of users monthly, with a multitude of training variables and multiple variables per individual). Always remember that for complex problems there might quite probably be more than one solution - getting her to use some creativity in presenting the information might surprise you. A VERY MERRY UNBIRTHDAY TO YOU!!! D.S # 125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #13 July 18, 2013 Put her on a formal performance improvement plan with a date by which she needs to be able to do her job correctly and if she doesn't get her house in order, fire her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Niki1 1 #14 July 18, 2013 The problem started with the manager who hired this incompetent "analyst". That manager, it seems, is not likely to admit a mistake in hiring said incompetent person. Does he have to rely on the faulty reports? Does he know the difference between a good report and a bad one? She's been doing these bad reports for 2 years? What is the result? Any repercussions? If not, then the reports may not be all that necessary.Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #15 July 18, 2013 madhatterHave you tried dropping the ball in her court? Sorry for the blanket answer to you and others all in one... No, I had not considered getting her to come up with a solution. I like the idea... It's still tricky, but it could be part of the solution... Just to explain, the reports are for our investors and they refuse to get them in any other format. So the bottom line is that what ever solution we come up with, those reports will have to be produced. We have tried to get her to fill an in-between report, but this made things more disconnected for her and she was even more lost... We have also automated a HUGE part of the report so that data entry is all that is needed (no calculations)... If anything, it has made filling it easy, but paradoxically made things far more abstract for her. We have put all kinds of checks and visual flags to highlight errors... When there is an error, she calls me to ask me why (despite the error message saying "error - sale price cannot be less than payment received" which I think is pretty clear...). However, we did NOT get her to come up with her own proposal, and perhaps there is wisdom in that approach... Is the problem that we hired the wrong person? Well, given she is not going away, this is totally irrelevant."There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #16 July 18, 2013 QuoteIs the problem that we hired the wrong person? It took 15 posts to say it? Yes! QuoteWell, given she is not going away, this is totally irrelevant. Then the company gets what it deserves. Or, deserves what it gets. Works either way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #17 July 18, 2013 Nataly Is the problem that we hired the wrong person? Well, given she is not going away, this is totally irrelevant. So what kind of business refuses to fire incompetent people?Is this a government job?"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldwomanc6 60 #18 July 18, 2013 ryoder *** Is the problem that we hired the wrong person? Well, given she is not going away, this is totally irrelevant. So what kind of business refuses to fire incompetent people?Is this a government job?Union lisa WSCR 594 FB 1023 CBDB 9 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #19 July 18, 2013 I am guessing that there is a lot leg work required to hire and fire in France which causes a lot of dead weight that is just taking up space on the payroll. Or the dumb chick is blowing the boss."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #20 July 18, 2013 DougHI am guessing that there is a lot leg work required to hire and fire in France which causes a lot of dead weight that is just taking up space on the payroll. Very much so. Peruse: http://www.google.com/#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=it%27s+difficult+to+fire+employees+in+france&oq=it%27s+difficult+to+fire+employees+in+france&gs_l=hp.3..33i21.1395.10801.0.10968.46.37.2.2.2.2.679.11076.0j9j13j7j4j3.36.0....0...1c.1.21.psy-ab.wTg07USKgVY&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.49478099,d.dmg&fp=80aa1d4f30425055&biw=1024&bih=605 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingRhenquest 1 #21 July 18, 2013 Heh, just go on vacation next time the report is due. Someplace with no cell phone access...I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #22 July 18, 2013 Job swap her for a few cycles such that someone else produces the reports and she uses them. Then have her teach someone else how to produce them. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,436 #23 July 18, 2013 Hi Doug, Quote a lot leg work required to hire and fire in France As a far younger man, I was stationed in France with the US Air Force. We had this one French civilian woman, who had been hired as something akin to a cleaning woman, but who was so lazy you could barely discern if she was actually moving when she was 'cleaning.' So the Commanding Officer decides he is going to get rid of her. Oopsie, she is now pregnant and, in those days, you could not under any conditions fire someone who was pregnant. OK, Plan B. They made life so miserable for that woman that I actually felt sorry for her. Finally, she quit. But before she left, she came up to the Commanding Officer's office and read him the riot act, all in French of which he understood not one word. Life can be very entertaining at times. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #24 July 19, 2013 A man is walking down a road and sees another man with a donkey for sale. The first man says, "Uh, nice donkey." The man with the donkey says, "Well, he's not much to look at, but he's the smartest damn donkey on the planet. I ought to know, I taught him." The first man says, "Oh really? Like, what...can he count to three or something?" Without a moment of hesitation, the donkey slaps his front right foot down three times. The man says, "Oh, come on. It's not like he understands English. You just signaled him to paw at the ground three times." "Nope," says the man with the donkey, "he does English and math." The first man says, "Yeah, yeah. Fine. This time you stand behind the donkey while I ask him a question." The donkey's owner stands behind the donkey. The first man asks, "What's the square root of 144?" The donkey says, "12." "HOLY FUCK!" says the first man. "You didn't say he could fucking SPEAK ENGLISH!" The donkey's owner says, "Yep. Like I said, smartest donkey on the planet and I'm the one who taught him!" The first man thinks about it for a bit then asks, "Um, hey, do you think you could teach him to do my reports for me? They're kinda abstract. Takes a bit of English and math. I'm not exactly sure how he'd do them what with the hooves and all. Maybe Dragon Dictation or something? Does he know how to do that? If you could teach him that, he'd be worth whatever you want for him and I'll pay it. A million bucks? No problem. Whatever you want." "Well," says the donkey's owner. "I could probably teach him. You got one of them dictation do-hickies with ya?" The first man pulls out his iPhone, fires up Dragon Dictation and shows it to the donkey. The donkey turns away completely uninterested. The donkey's owner says, "Gimme that thing." The donkey's owner shows the iPhone to the donkey. The donkey turns away. "Pay attention when I'm talking to you!" says the donkey's owner. The donkey doesn't. The donkey's owner picks up a baseball bat and WHACKS the donkey over his head. "Hey! Stop that!" says the first man, "I thought you said you could teach him; not beat him!" "Well," says the donkey's owner, "First, I have to get his attention." Just sayin'.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nataly 38 #25 July 19, 2013 DougH I am guessing that there is a lot leg work required to hire and fire in France which causes a lot of dead weight that is just taking up space on the payroll. Or the dumb chick is blowing the boss. Oh dear... What about all the incompetent dumb men who don't get sacked - are they blowing the boss?? For a lot of reasons, sacking her is not the solution - she is extremely good at her job except for this part. Even if she *were* totally useless (she is not), it's still irrelevant because she is staying."There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield « Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. » - my boss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
