PD factory lottery

[gowlerk 2,249]

So let me get this straight. They are selling $17,500 worth of tickets for a rig and accessories worth about half of that. And using the PD name prominently with no indication of having a lottery license or being a charity of any kind.

I always thought only governments and organized crime were allowed to run numbers. Really? You can do that in America? I'd love a piece of that action, but I want to be the house.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wildcard451 0]

There's always one asshole.

[BigMikeH77 0]

The PD Factory Team website is blocked here for some reason as it apparently constitutes "sports/recreation". By golly, there'll be NO recreation in the office!

So I don't know if it's a benefit for a charity - if it is, they didn't mention it in the DZ.com adverts. If not, I think they'd just need a permit in the state of Florida to run a raffle... That shouldn't be too difficult.

[gowlerk 2,249]

I've looked at their website and I don't get how they could be entitled to run a lottery. They look like a professional demo outfit strongly associated with selling PD products. PD is certainly not a charity. They don't seem to be a team that may represent the USA in competition, although individual members might.

I've seen Airspeed run similar lotteries, but they are a team raising funds to train. Maybe "PD Factory Team" is doing some worthy work of some kind, but they do not make any mention of it anywhere that I can find. As far as I can tell they just seem to want to make some quick cash. I'm surprised that PD and Sunpath ect would allow them to do that.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Remster 30]

  gowlerk

I've looked at their website and I don't get how they could be entitled to run a lottery. They look like a professional demo outfit strongly associated with selling PD products. PD is certainly not a charity. They don't seem to be a team that may represent the USA in competition, although individual members might.

I've seen Airspeed run similar lotteries, but they are a team raising funds to train. Maybe "PD Factory Team" is doing some worthy work of some kind, but they do not make any mention of it anywhere that I can find. As far as I can tell they just seem to want to make some quick cash. I'm surprised that PD and Sunpath ect would allow them to do that.

Yeah.. Because the PD Factory team doesn't train.

Remster

[BigMikeH77 0]

  gowlerk

I've looked at their website and I don't get how they could be entitled to run a lottery. They look like a professional demo outfit strongly associated with selling PD products. PD is certainly not a charity. They don't seem to be a team that may represent the USA in competition, although individual members might.

I've seen Airspeed run similar lotteries, but they are a team raising funds to train. Maybe "PD Factory Team" is doing some worthy work of some kind, but they do not make any mention of it anywhere that I can find. As far as I can tell they just seem to want to make some quick cash. I'm surprised that PD and Sunpath ect would allow them to do that.

I'll check it out from home. Is it implied anywhere that the money raised is going to support the PD Factory Team, or any other entity whether charitable or not?

Lotteries are by definition organized and operated by the state, therefore any group putting together a prize package and selling tickets for an individual to win it would constitute a raffle. Again, raffles are most often regulated by the individual state and permit(s) are required where applicable. There are tax liabilities for for-profit entities and non charitable groups such as the PD Factory team, whereas nonprofits may be exempt.

I recently saw a flyer at my home DZ for a SIS sponsored raffle, with proceeds going to help support a record attempt. I believe the top prize was a complete rig as well... I can't imagine needing the manufacturers permission to include their product in a raffle, but in this case it was clear 1)who was organizing the raffle, and 2) What the raffle proceeds were being used for.

[gowlerk 2,249]

I only mention the PD and Sunpath because they both sponsor the group and are likely supplying them at no cost. Which pretty much means that the raffle would make money for the group that advertises the product. In other words PD gains as much as PD Factory Team in the scheme because it lowers the cost of the sponsorship.

There are a lot of worthy charities out there trying to raise money. I don't see how this group gets to raise money this way. I can't see any mention of what the money is being raised for and their website is mostly about how to purchase their services. It seems completely commercial.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[phreeloader 0]

  gowlerk

I only mention the PD and Sunpath because they both sponsor the group and are likely supplying them at no cost. Which pretty much means that the raffle would make money for the group that advertises the product. In other words PD gains as much as PD Factory Team in the scheme because it lowers the cost of the sponsorship.

There are a lot of worthy charities out there trying to raise money. I don't see how this group gets to raise money this way. I can't see any mention of what the money is being raised for and their website is mostly about how to purchase their services. It seems completely commercial.

I may be the odd man out.. but frankly I don't care where the money goes. They could blow the whole wad on hookers & weed. I already have all the details i need, my $35 give me a 1 in 500 chance at getting me fully equipped

It's all well & good that there are plenty of noble charities out there... and they aren't implying in any way this is a charitable cause... Most likely it's to pay for jump tickets and transportation to events/swoop comps etc... but who cares

[Squeak 17]

  gowlerk

I only mention the PD and Sunpath because they both sponsor the group and are likely supplying them at no cost. Which pretty much means that the raffle would make money for the group that advertises the product. In other words PD gains as much as PD Factory Team in the scheme because it lowers the cost of the sponsorship.

There are a lot of worthy charities out there trying to raise money. I don't see how this group gets to raise money this way. I can't see any mention of what the money is being raised for and their website is mostly about how to purchase their services. It seems completely commercial.

Im glad you are raising these points and you spreading the word will hopefully stop people buying tickets.

That way MY odds will increase and my ticket will have a better chance of being drawn


DAMMIT DUDE you're to late to the "pissing on their parade party"
Apparently they sold out of the 500 tickets.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[grue 1]

  Squeak

[
Apparently they sold out of the 500 tickets.

I was thinkin' about buying another one next week. Argh, only got one.

cavete terrae.

[DSE 5]

  gowlerk

I've seen Airspeed run similar lotteries, but they are a team raising funds to train. Maybe "PD Factory Team" is doing some worthy work of some kind, but they do not make any mention of it anywhere that I can find. As far as I can tell they just seem to want to make some quick cash. I'm surprised that PD and Sunpath ect would allow them to do that.

Exactly.
If most folks had any real idea of how much 'worthy work' the PD team does, this wouldn't be a conversation. But... they don't get a lot of mileage out of advertising their good works, and they'd be dicks if they did, IMO.
I've personally been present when the factory team has gone far outside the world of skydiving to perform community services that have never been published (to the best of my knowledge).

If there is a way to reduce the burden on the factory so that Flight 1 can attend more events, participate in more community opportunities, then I'm all for it.
The alternative is that PD has a limited budget, so the community loses out if the team cannot be sent to certain kinds of events.
It's skydiving. No one is getting rich at any level of the sport. It just isn't worth getting political over, IMO.
Really wish I could have gotten a ticket before they sold out.

[gowlerk 2,249]

That's actually the kind of info I'm hoping to hear. I don't really know what the PD factory team does, other than promote PD products. If they go around providing cheap or free coaching like so many people in the sport do then a raffle is more appropriate. But to look at the website, it's a bunch of people trying to make a living in skydive. A tough task, but not really worthy of charitable status.

  Quote

If most folks had any real idea of how much 'worthy work' the PD team does, this wouldn't be a conversation. But... they don't get a lot of mileage out of advertising their good works, and they'd be dicks if they did, IMO.

I'm editing this to add that they seem to be selling fairly expensive professional coaching and are not a charity at all. They are pro coaches running a raffle as a sideline. You can go to the website and check it out. Slick, professional and entirely commercial. I understand why skydivers like the raffle, the tickets sold out quickly because people like the terms of the game. Not because they want to support the team. Just like any numbers game.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[NWFlyer 2]

  Quote

But to look at the website, it's a bunch of people trying to make a living in skydive. A tough task, but not really worthy of charitable status.

So's Airspeed (to use an example you cited). But you seem to lump Airspeed into the "good lottery" category and the PDFT into the "bad lottery" category. Why?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[gowlerk 2,249]

  Quote

So's Airspeed (to use an example you cited). But you seem to lump Airspeed into the "good lottery" category and the PDFT into the "bad lottery" category. Why?

Mostly because Airspeed is a team training for competition, although I do agree it's a fine line. Also Airspeed does not operate as a commercial business with profit as the goal as PDFT seems to do. As well, they are much more low key about it. You can go here and look.

https://store.flight-1.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=34

To me it is much the same as if a DZ were to do a raffle and put the money into the till. It would be OK if it was a club, but not for a commercial DZ.

I'm not extremely offended by it. But I am concerned enough to mention it here, where I know I will get little to no support because everyone likes the game. It's partly because I hate the gambling industry in general. It appeals to some of the worst emotions in people. That's why it's so associated with the mob. And I am genuinely surprised that PD would support it. But I guess it is very popular, and they could easily have sold twice the number of tickets at the same price.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[DSE 5]

Here is another way to look at it.

PD has 100.00 in the fund.
It costs 20.00 to send the FACTORY team to each public event.
That means the FACTORY team can attend 5 public events.

Flight 1 (a team that is associated with PD) can raise another 100.00 on their own. That means they can now do 10 public events.

It also means they have the $$ to develop new techniques, create training videos, act as quality ambassadors for the sport, spend time with newbies, and generally try to be the tremendously underpaid athletes that they are, all to the greater benefit of the sport, the industry, and the participants in the sport at every level.

You're associating profit dollars exclusively with outreach, and you're apparently of the inaccurate opinion that the Flight One team only does PD-related work.
As I said, I've been there where there were no cameras (except mine) and the team has stepped well outside of their skydiving personas to do non-skydiving related community works at their own personal/team expense.
Associating this raffle with the mob, suggesting that it benefits PD, suggesting that *anyone* is receiving funding for something that doesn't benefit the skydiving community is simply absurd and in a way, offensive given that most of us who have been around the sport long enough, understand what these guys and their counterparts put back into our sport.
Perhaps your strongly expressed disdain for gambling has colored your ability to see this for what it clearly is about.
Donate money to the USPA team fund, it's a bigger crapshoot as to whether that money benefits our sport or not, by comparison to the Flight One team offering a raffle as a fund-raiser.

[gowlerk 2,249]

You may be right, and I just don't understand what it is that they do. I am basing this mostly on what they say that they do. It is named PDFT, and they do not say what they will do with the cash. And they do advertise paid coaching. They do not advertise outreach or claim to be doing any. Maybe it's just poor messaging.

It appears to be people trying to earn a living, and there is nothing wrong with that. But the rest of the world doesn't get to earn their living from raffles.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[skymama 37]

  Quote

It appears to be people trying to earn a living, and there is nothing wrong with that. But the rest of the world doesn't get to earn their living from raffles.

So, are you jealous? Why is this bothering you so much? I don't see the problem. I wish they'd do another one because I didn't get a chance to buy a ticket!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[sfzombie13 324]

i used to do a 50-50 raffle each week at work when i worked at a power plant. they would ask, "what's it for?" and i'd say, 50 for you, 50 for me. i usually got a nice little bonus. if i'm not mistaken, you're allowed to raffle your shit off if you want to.

i was on a tv repair last week and it was a two week old, 60" plasma the guy paid 2 grand on and it got a line across the screen. they didn't want the old one back for a core, so i talked to a guy that gets parts and he gave me the rest of it that i needed, (about $220 worth, the screen cost $1300) so now i have a 60" plasma, three weeks old, with a line across it for free. and i might raffle it off! $2 a ticket, i'll sell 1000. anyone in?

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[gowlerk 2,249]

  Quote

So, are you jealous? Why is this bothering you so much? I don't see the problem. I wish they'd do another one because I didn't get a chance to buy a ticket!

It's not bothering me that much. I won't lose any sleep, and it won't go beyond here. Just discussing. But your comment kind of shows the point about human nature. If this "deserving" group had simply asked here for $35 donations, they would get exactly nothing. Dangle the remote chance of a glittering prize and just watch the cash roll in!

The problem is that raffles are very profitable fund raising schemes that society generally reserves for worthy causes. Or we would all run them. I guess I am jealous. I'd like to sell some gear for that kind of profit.

PT Barnum would understand.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Maksimsf 0]

Couple of moth ago some one stole a rig from PDFT member. May be PD told them that they will not replace it, so they decided to run a raffle to get their guy a new rig. That does look like charity to me

I personally very skeptical to any raffles if I don't see tickets being pulled out of the jar.

[AggieDave 6]

  gowlerk

So let me get this straight. They are selling $17,500 worth of tickets for a rig and accessories worth about half of that. And using the PD name prominently with no indication of having a lottery license or being a charity of any kind.

Deep down I really don't care if they blow all the money on inflatable furniture and beer.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[BigMikeH77 0]

That's a possibility... Or maybe the PDFT needs to pad their accounts, or maybe the proceeds will go to a charitable cause. We don't really know.

I didn't get a chance to get a ticket either, but I would have bought one if they didn't sell out so quickly. But I think it would be nice to know where the proceeds are going - just for the sake of transparency.

[oldwomanc6 60]

I've heard tell of people raffling off their house. Perfectly legal in many places as long as the transaction/s are transparent.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[AggieDave 6]

  BigMikeH77

But I think it would be nice to know where the proceeds are going - just for the sake of transparency.

Let me take a swing at this...

the proceeds are going to the PDFT to fund their adventures, training and incredible videos. The videos you love, the free advice you get when you ask. You know these guys don't get paid much money, even with all the coaching and other paid slot events.

Having been able to jump with, compete with and drink beer with those guys (even before they were "those guys"...Ian), I hope they make a bunch of money and get a chance to get a little back for everything they put into our sport.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[JohnMitchell 16]

Just buy tickets in the Leap for Lupus lottery coming up. ALL the proceeds go straight to medical research, not hookers and blow.