What are these? Canopy Warts?

[johnny1488 1]

Canopy manufacturers aren't doing testing to appease the desire of jumpers for knowledge. They do it to build better parachutes. I think we take ourselves a bit too seriously sometimes. We are skydivers, not astronauts. But our sport is very important to us. As far as if there testing is bs or not, the proof is in the pudding. The real results are in whether or not a product does well in the marketplace, because we are pretty critical of our gear, and the claims manufacturers make about that gear.

As far as Icarus goes, the best opening/flare power that is talked about in their advertisements are just that, advertisements. It is followed by the statement, guaranteed or your money back. This does not imply that it is backed by some study somewhere, but that the consumer will think so when they fly the canopy. And the wind tunnel testing is far from a gimic or a lie as has been stated here. Here is one article about the testing done on inflatable parafoils (like the ones we jump) in a wind tunnel to gain information on flight characteristics. Now if you want to see the results of a test like that, go get an internship with Icarus or CIMSA, cause I doubt they do these test so other manufacturers can reap the rewards.

"Yeah capitalism!" - Austin Powers

SUCCESSFUL TESTS WITH A SCALED PARAFOIL WIND TUNNEL MODEL By National Aerospace Laboratory Press Office

NOORDOOSTPOLDER, NETHERLANDS—NLR Wind Tunnel Engineering recently developed and produced a Remotely Controlled Manipulator and an instrumentation package for parafoil low speed wind tunnel tests. The tests were performed early this year as part of the European 5th Framework program FASTWing, acronym for Foldable Adaptive Steerable Textile Wing.

The program is led by Autoflug of Germany and further consisting of CIMSA Ingenieria de Sistemas (Spain), CESA (Spain), EADS-ST (Germany), NLR (Netherlands) and DLR (Germany). FASTWing aims, among other things, for the development of a new parafoil design for Aircraft Emergency Recovery and Heavy Load Delivery. The new full scale parafoil will allow carrying payloads up to 3200 kg.

Wind tunnel tests were required to validate the predicted real size parafoil performance. The scaled parafoil (scale of approx. 1:4) had a span of 6 m, could carry payloads up to 450 kg and was supplied by the manufacturer of the real size parafoil, CIMSA Ingenieria de Sistemas. The FASTWing parafoil was tested in various configurations, in the 9.5 x 9.5 m test section of DNW-LLF in the North East Polder, under supervision of NLR. The Remotely Controlled Manipulator and associated instrumentation performed their tasks well and allowed the test program to be executed successfully.

The manipulator is located below the wind tunnel turntable, on the external balance of the wind tunnel. The external balance measures all forces and moments acting on the scaled parafoil

The scaled parafoil consists of a canopy and about 192 lines: 172 Suspension lines plus 20 Control and Flare lines.

The suspension lines are grouped at the left and right hand sides, joined together at each side in two so called suspension group points just above the floor. From both group points a suspension group line passes, through the wind tunnel floor, to the swivel table, part of the Remotely Controlled Manipulator.

On top of that, left and right hand Control and Flare lines are remotely controlled by their own dedicated winches. The highly loaded control lines are driven independently of each other; the flare lines are driven synchronously with preset speeds and strokes.

The manipulator can change the angle of attack of the entire parafoil in order to determine the angle of attack for best performance of the parafoil.

For measurement of angle of attack, roll angle and location of the parafoil, NLR Wind Tunnel Engineering developed an instrumentation platform fixed in the center section of the parafoil. Angle of attack and angle of roll are measured by Q-flexes, location of the parafoil by the infrared Optotrak system of the LLF.

The forces in the suspension lines (10), and flare (1)- and control lines (1) are measured with load cells, statically as well dynamically. The total loads on the parafoil are measured by the six component external balance of the wind tunnel.

Based on the results of the model-scale wind tunnel tests a full-scale flight test program will follow. An avionics system will be developed as part of the same program for full-scale tests that will allow autonomous flight to a preprogrammed target point. Flight test with the real size parafoil will include a number of deployment tests and drop tests. These (autonomous) flight tests are scheduled for later this year.

The entire article with picture as well as other articles can be found here

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[flyana3 0]

Thanks for clarifying that Icarus WAS NOT lying about the wind tunnel testing. People are so quick to point fingers and put blame and call people liars when they don't even know the TRUE FACTS! To think this forum started out with a question about those things on top of the Nitrons, and then turned into calling Icarus a liar. Do the moderators moderate stuff like this, or do they feel good and smile when it is hear say shit being talked about Icarus?......Come on now! Something doesn't seem right...

Someone else that just had a hard Sabre opening was concerned about this when they tried to share their experience and get someone info they were locked out and told to "Search Previous Posts" Check out their comments on this Dead Horse Post. "Dead Horse Forum"

[PhreeZone 20]

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Do the moderators moderate stuff like this, or do they feel good and smile when it is hear say shit being talked about Icarus?......Come on now! Something doesn't seem right...

The moderators try to make sure the basic fourm rules are applied as much as possible.

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The Forum Rules:
No personal attacks.

No jokes about or references to pedophilia. None.

No advertising in the forums.

Post to the correct forum and stay on topic.

Thread drift is a natural part of a fourm thread and its to be expected. Sometimes if the drift is a lot they will split the thread off into its own thread to allow a seperate discussion to go on there while allowing the original to remain more on topic. Sometimes the moderators don't read all the threads. There is a lot of threads on here and the unpaid, over worked people that are volenteering their time to moderate DZ.com might not have read the thread. If you want the Icarus Wind Tunnel portion of the thread spun off I'd suggest contacting one of the moderators of this froum. I think Slotperfect is the only one here and ask him to do that for you.

As for them feeling good and smiling about shit being said about Icarus where would that even come from?

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Someone else that just had a hard Sabre opening was concerned about this when they tried to share their experience and get someone info they were locked out and told to "Search Previous Posts" Check out their comments on this Dead Horse Post. "Dead Horse Forum"

Look at the fourm rules. The best way to stay on topic is to search for an exsiting thread that is about your topic and see if its best to continue that thread or to start a new one. On topics that come up every 5-6 days is it realy needed to create a new thread just to make 1 new point. The entire Gear fourm could be covered with just "Sabre hard opening" threads or all of S&T could be covered with "Should I get an RSL" threads if there was not a limit placed on the creation of new threads that have been covered time after time in the archives here. What is the purpose of archiving all the posts here and making them searchable if people do not use the search function and read the past questions and comments. I bet over half the questions that are in the top 100 threads in Gear and rigging have been asked at least 4 times before.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[dorbie 0]

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Thanks for clarifying that Icarus WAS NOT lying about the wind tunnel testing. People are so quick to point fingers and put blame and call people liars when they don't even know the TRUE FACTS! To think this forum started out with a question about those things on top of the Nitrons, and then turned into calling Icarus a liar. Do the moderators moderate stuff like this, or do they feel good and smile when it is hear say shit being talked about Icarus?......Come on now! Something doesn't seem right...

Someone else that just had a hard Sabre opening was concerned about this when they tried to share their experience and get someone info they were locked out and told to "Search Previous Posts" Check out their comments on this Dead Horse Post. "Dead Horse Forum"

Yea definitely, thanks for pointing that out. As for knowing the "true facts" I did qualify my observation. I had no way of knowing that the adamant claim posted by "wuffo" that no real tests are done by Icarus was false.

I apologize for my part in impugning Icarus, I hate this kind of rubbish online.

As for throwing mud at Icarus, I don't have a horse in this race. This is a public forum and anyone could have pointed out the facts as thankfully they did, I started this sub thread by pointing out the testing as a beneficial thing if you'll remember. I don't think wuffo was really having a go either if you look at his second reply to me.