Suunto Altimeter Watches

[freekflyguy 0]

Ok ill bite.

Gerry I am stunned that you jump without an alti, I am stunned that the DZ you jump at lets you get away with not wearing one.

If your profile is correct, you are jumping a high performance canopy with a high wing loading 400 jumps in 2 years is relatively low experience.

You have 300 FF jumps, does this mean that throughout these you never used a visual or audible alti??

You need to get some good advice bud, you really are pushing the envelope in an already uncompromising sport.

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[AndyMan 7]

Since you're in Toronto, Mountain Equipment Co-op, located (if I recall correctly), on King just East of Spadina, is a good place to buy one. www.mec.ca

It's where I got mine, IIRC I paid about $80 less than the competition was charging.


_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[peterk 0]

Just because you jump with two audibles, an Alti3, and a Cypres, doesn't mean that everyone that doesn't is unsafe and dangerous.

I stopped wearing an alti when I gave mine to my brother, when he started jumping. I sold my audibles when I needed money for BASE. I sold my Cypres when I needed more money for BASE.

Now, I pay attention to the ground below me, and pull when I am comfortable, or uncomfortable. I know what 2000' looks like.

Why is it so hard to understand the concept that you can make decisions based on your eyes?

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[Ron 10]

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Why is it so hard to understand the concept that you can make decisions based on your eyes?

Its not, but there is a big difference in the ability to do that between 800 jumps and 200.

There is also a big difference between a guy that has had a malfunction and someone who has not.

However if you were a pilot you would learn that your eyes and internal senses lie. Instruments as long as they are working don't.

Now I am a BIG fan of using your eyes as a primary alti. However, you should have a good mechanical backup...Preferably one that is visual that you can see if it is not working as opposed to an audible that will just not beep.

My Alti's in order:
1. Eyes...If I look low...Chances are that I am.
2. Sense of time...If it seems like a long skydive, check it out.
3. Visual Alitmeter Use this to check the others
4. Audible Altimeter Use this to check the others
5. Others on the jump. If they seem to be deploying...Its a good idea to do the same.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[goose491 0]

Noble... and uh... cool in a sense, for some to chime in saying they use their eyes first and their altis second. It's important that we all have a good sense of what breakoff and deployment altitudes look like as well as roughly how long it should take to get there.

But... a little too bold though, methinks (limited experience and all) to say that their eyes make for a more reliable reading. And if jumping with more than just yourself, you owe your partner(s) a little more accuracy.

The double audible thing is groovy.... Still, I like knowing that my partner, over there in the sky, can look and confirm where we are... and isn't just too cool you know?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[goose491 0]

Right on AndyMan, thanks :-)

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Ron 10]

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But... a little too bold though, methinks (limited experience and all) to say that their eyes make for a more reliable reading. And if jumping with more than just yourself, you owe your partner(s) a little more accuracy.

Did you miss this whole part of my post?

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However if you were a pilot you would learn that your eyes and internal senses lie. Instruments as long as they are working don't.

Now I am a BIG fan of using your eyes as a primary alti. However, you should have a good mechanical backup...Preferably one that is visual that you can see if it is not working as opposed to an audible that will just not beep.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[peterk 0]

I think the most important lesson is this: You are a skydiver, and can make decisions for yourself. Ask around the dz, ask online here, read incident reports, etc... But do whatever it takes for yourself to be comfortable when you leave the plane.

There are some out there that jump two audibles, an Alti3, Cypres, etc.. You get to decide what you need to feel safe.

Until you can make decisions not to wear some of these things, wear them and don't use them. Or just keep them there as backup. Whatever, but be comfortable, and be safe...

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[mjosparky 4]

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I think the most important lesson is this: You are a skydiver, and can make decisions for yourself. Ask around the dz, ask online here, read incident reports, etc... But do whatever it takes for yourself to be comfortable when you leave the plane.

There are some out there that jump two audibles, an Alti3, Cypres, etc.. You get to decide what you need to feel safe.

Until you can make decisions not to wear some of these things, wear them and don't use them. Or just keep them there as backup. Whatever, but be comfortable, and be safe...

I think it is great, wear as many toys as you can afford. Just remember not to count on them to do what you should be doing when you should be doing it. Jump every jump as if you know in you heart that done of these gadgets are working. And when they do, be surprised. jmo

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[freekflyguy 0]

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Just because you jump with two audibles, an Alti3, and a Cypres, doesn't mean that everyone that doesn't is unsafe and dangerous.

Actually its 2 Altis (an alti 2 and a Suunto Vector), one audible and a Cypres. No it doesnt mean they are unsafe or dangerous, but I do feel its unadvisable.

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I stopped wearing an alti when I gave mine to my brother, when he started jumping. I sold my audibles when I needed money for BASE. I sold my Cypres when I needed more money for BASE.

That is a choice I guess you have in the USA, in the UK an alti is mandatory for anything over a 15 sec delay. AAD's are not yet mandatory in the UK, and I would be happy if they were.

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Now, I pay attention to the ground below me, and pull when I am comfortable, or uncomfortable. I know what 2000' looks like.

Which is a good skill, I too know what 2000ft looks like as I have usually been under canopy for 1000ft by then. I know what height I pull at because I use and alti. I also know that when I had a high speed rotating malfunction I lost 1000 very quickly indeed, which may have resulted in a main reserve entanglment if I had pulled low.

I also know that when i am filming tandems and FS my alti is just jewelery, but my body clock, peripheral vision and audible are invaluable tools.

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Why is it so hard to understand the concept that you can make decisions based on your eyes?

Its not, is it hard to understand that your perception of height will change throughout the day due to many factors (visibility, exhaustion, heat inversion etc).

Also if you are freeflying the chances are your not looking at the ground a great deal, in fact I believe one of the first things a good FF coach will instill in a student is alti checks.

And I am pretty sure that canopy control schools teach students to use an alti to gauge the height lost in a turn (300ft for a 180 and 450ft for a 270), as well as using one when setting up for a swoop. I would be interested to know how many swoopers out there still eyeball there landings???

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[peterk 0]

Ok, you win. I am stupid.

Why is it that people have to dissect posts, and try to prove that everyone is wrong, and they are right, point by point?

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I would be interested to know how many swoopers out there still eyeball there landings???

I never used an alitmeter for swooping. As for conditions changing, yes, they do, but not enough to matter. I could accurately pull at 2,500 +/1 200 feet, no problem. Every malfunction I had, I didn't need an altimeter.

Trust your eyes first, and use altimeters as back-ups only.

Derek

[nate_1979 9]

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Actually its 2 Altis (an alti 2 and a Suunto Vector), one audible and a Cypres.

Ohh! That's me, almost... Alti 2, Suunto Altimax, one audible (protrack) and Cypress 2... Had two audibles until I gave one to a friend who lost altitude awareness and scared the crap out of me.. I like my toys

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[jerry81 10]

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Ok ill bite.

Gerry I am stunned that you jump without an alti, I am stunned that the DZ you jump at lets you get away with not wearing one.

If your profile is correct, you are jumping a high performance canopy with a high wing loading 400 jumps in 2 years is relatively low experience.

You have 300 FF jumps, does this mean that throughout these you never used a visual or audible alti??

You need to get some good advice bud, you really are pushing the envelope in an already uncompromising sport.

Buzz

Hehe, I'm almost certain that's my first flaming on dz.com.

As far as altimeters go, I'm sure you know different places have different rules. Good to know about the UK, though.
My 300ff jumps were more or less all done with at least one kind of altimeter-notice I did't say that I haven't used one ever since coming off student status.
And as for my canopy choice- I know 200 jumps at this wl/planform is hardly enough to do much more than scratch the surface, but I think I'm doing fine so far. And I know that if I was ever in dire need of some good advice, people who know me (hint) would offer it.

Cheers.

---

[meatbomb 0]

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AAD's are not yet mandatory in the UK, and I would be happy if they were.

Why? How would it affect you, given that you already jump one?

I personally feel it is wrong to mandate something that takes control out of skydivers' hands...that needs to be an individual decision...

---
Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii!
Piccies

[freekflyguy 0]

I see it as no different to seat belts/air bags in a car or helmet on a motorbike.

Having seen three people survive two seperate potentialy fatal situations because they hads AAD's I feel there are few situations/arguments for not having one.

Whilst AAD's are not mandatory, I respect an individuals decision to not use one. that wont stop me trying to persuade them otherwise.

In what way do you think an AAD takes control out of the skydivers hand??

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[mattjw916 2]

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Ok, you win. I am stupid.

Why is it that people have to dissect posts, and try to prove that everyone is wrong, and they are right, point by point?

welcome to dz.com...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[goose491 0]

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Did you miss this whole part of my post?

Hardly.

Sorry Ron, that wasn't really directed at you. You were just the last in the thread for me to respond to.

All i'm stating is that I agree that you should have your eyes and sense of elapsed time as "primary" alti... but that IMO, just not wearing a visual altitude instrument when jumping with others is simply not smart.

Your eyes may be very well trained... but if breakoff is 4500 then it's 4500. If we're all using our eyes on this 5 way... even if we all have the jedei-like training... We're still not all waving off and tracking away at exactly the same time.

That's all. I'm saying don't rely on your instruments. But when they're that easy to obtain and use as backup... the added accuracy they give is nearly owed to your partners in the sky.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Ron 10]

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Sorry Ron, that wasn't really directed at you. You were just the last in the thread for me to respond to.

Sorry, I thought it was....Ya know its kinda our "thing"

Your right.

Eyes are not perfect, and alti's do fail. Both are ideal.

I'd hate to do a solo with no alti other than my eyes...I've done it, but it felt wierd.

On the other hand if my eyes tell me I am low, and my alti says Im fine...I'll dump anyway...Why risk it?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mr2mk1g 10]

Hehe - just found this and thought I'd post it... I guess this would be one reason to stick to the old analogue.

[AndyMan 7]

I know you menat that as a joke, but I'll chime in here.

Any altimeter - digital or analog can break or fail.

I like the failure modes of digital because the most likely cause of failure is a dead battery. In this case the display goes blank, telling the user that clearly something is wrong. With an analog model a common malfunction is "sticking", at which point the altimeter may give you a "false high" reading during freefall - which in my mind is the worst possible scenario.

That said, my Suunto wristwatch altimeter has been very reliable, providing ample warning to dead batteries.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[cvfd1399 0]

Been there eery feeling to look over and see a blank screen

[mr2mk1g 10]

...or to look over and see "12 degC, 29.65 inHg" cos you've hit "mode" half way down and you're now looking at a barometer.

hehe - from my helmet camera footage you can tell I do a double take.

I've no idea about the origins of the pic I attached - I wasn't aware suuntos ever died like that... Mine certainly hasn't shown any signs of instability - I'd be surprised if any had… but the picture is definitely a "doctored" Suunto Observer.

[AndyMan 7]

The attached image is a joke. The image centered on the screen is a far-too-common Microsoft Windows error, commonly reffered to as "the blue screen of death".

Suunto Observers do not have color screens, never mind the fact that they do not run Microsoft Windows.

Cute, and a good joke - but not accurate.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[mr2mk1g 10]

hehe, I know - that's why I posted it. I'm sat here wearing exactly the same watch as the one shown in the picture - hence saying it's been "doctored". I just meant I don't know who doctored the image to start with and by "died" I meant crashed through some kind of softwear glitch - albeit not one manifesting itself as a blue screen of death.