A question about Katana?

[GRU 0]

There's a lot of experienced people reading this forum and I have a question to those who can help with my problem... I have 600 jumps on my sabre2 150 with wingloading 1.4 and I would like to buy a katana now... the best size would be 135 but the biggest produced is 120 at the moment. I want to downsize because I want to have a greater speed and practice highperfom landings... I'm not a super-swooper but also I never had any problems with my landings. Can anyone who maybe jumped KAtana 120 with wingloading 1.75 tell me is it a good idea for me? There's a lot of information about how great is this conopy for swooping but supossingly I want to do some normal safe landings while exploring its bahavior in the air... thx for any suggestions

fly free
GRU

[Dazzle 0]

My 107 at approx 1.7 will land very nicely straight in when needed.

It's a fairly big jump but is doable (mine was a bigger jump but I had a lot of weight loss as well)

I'm guessing that poland isn't the best of places to borrow a 135 for a while. Might be worth getting nice and current and trying it if you can't use a 135 as a stepping stone. Maybe get a demo at a spring boogie when you could jump lots.

I ordered mine from stock and got it in less than a week.

Would be nice to have some idea when they might be launching the 135 and 150s!

[Spizzzarko 0]

Dude,

That's a pretty big jump from a 150 to a 120, and a pretty big jump in wing loading numbers. I put a jump on the Katana at the WFFC, and I found it to be a fairly nice canopy, but I jump a velocity. I found the katana to be quite a bit like the velocity, and the velocity is by far the least forgiving canopy I have ever jumped. I would suggest finding yourself a stilletto 135, or sticking with a sabre 2 but getting a 135. If you think you need a hi performance canopy to turf surf then you are sadly mistaken. You may not want to hear this, but moving to the katana now would just be a vanity purchase for you. I have seen people do some amazing things on Stillettos, and Sabre 2's. Don't discount then just yet because they are not the newest thing out there.

[diablopilot 2]

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Can anyone who maybe jumped KAtana 120 with wingloading 1.75 tell me is it a good idea for me?

No. A jump from 1.4 to 1.8 is not to be taken lightly. The Jump from the Sabre2 to a Katana is probably not a good idea either. I'd sugest finding a nice used Stiletto 135 for the next season, and THEN try the Katana.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[bbarnhouse 0]

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No. A jump from 1.4 to 1.8 is not to be taken lightly. The Jump from the Sabre2 to a Katana is probably not a good idea either. I'd sugest finding a nice used Stiletto 135 for the next season, and THEN try the Katana.

Very sound advice.

[GRU 0]

yes that seems to be the best idea than the Katana now... I will have 1,55 wingloading on 135 sq f but I have to choose between the stilletto and sabre2 (which I really like)... the pro for stilletto is that the max weight for it is 230 lbs which leaves me some space left and sabre2 has just 216 lbs which is equal to my exit weight... thx for all the helpful answers

fly free
GRU

[GRU 0]

any others good ideas welcome :-)

fly free
GRU

[AggieDave 6]

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any others good ideas welcome :-)

You've had the most sound idea presented already, its just apparently not the answer you wanted to hear.

Do what JP suggested. Get a Stiletto for next season, then make the next step after that. Jumping across types of canopies and jumping wingloadings like that is a sure fire way to put yourself in a wheelchair (or worst).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[gerrcoin 0]

Ok, I know zilch about swooping. I was going to suggest a Saphire, simply because it's docile eliptical, but this thread says it better than I could.
1st swoop canop?

[LouDiamond 1]

Along with the advice you have been given so far, check out this LINK on downsizing. If you can meet all those requirements then you should think about downsizing safely.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Squeak 17]

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any others good ideas welcome :-)

This is advice but probably NOT good advice, PD is currently testing the Katana 135 (so I'm told) and it should be on the market reasonably soon(ish), beg or borrow a stilletto 135 until the Katana 135 is ready then Demo it and see how you like it.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[lewmonst 0]

I'd suggest downsizing progressively (if you've done the "downsize" checkoff list) on the same canopy your on, a Sabre 2, then trying a different model of that size you have become proficient on. A friend of mine can swoop the shit out of a Sabre2 135 with about your same exit weight. It was his wife's rig, which he often used on back-to-backs. She flew conservatively and had soft easy landings while he 270'd the same canopy and could swoop quite well, consistently.

Like everyone has said, downsizing and changing models at the same time is a very bad idea.

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[diablopilot 2]

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I was going to suggest a Saphire, simply because it's docile eliptical,

So is the Sabre2

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Fast 0]

I have a question to add. With all the suggestions of going to a stilleto I want to know if there is something else between a Saber2 and a KA that people think is a good stepping stone for a planform change.

I don't like the idea of going from a decent recovery arc on the saber to a shorter recovery arc on the ST and then going to a KA which basically is like a Velo.

Thoughts?

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[piisfish 140]

ever thought of a Crossfire, you can get them any size you want, but as standard they would have 129 and 139.

The more reasonable version would be the 139. But I'm no expert or advice-giver...

Maybe a good alternative to a Stiletto 135

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[diablopilot 2]

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I don't like the idea of going from a decent recovery arc on the saber to a shorter recovery arc on the ST

The Stiletto and Sabre to have similar recovery arcs.

Other options would be the Nitro, or Nitron, the Heatwave (no longer produced) and the Vision. There are probably others but these are the ones I'd recomend.

Newer Jumpers seem to think the Stiletto ain't all that hot. Just because it's been around a while doesn't me it ain't a GREAT high breformance canopy. Plus the openings are better.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[GRU 0]

I like the idea of a Crossfire2 129 which will be 1.6 winglodead and the construction is a bit newer then the Stilletto... any comments about that?

fly free
GRU

[karlm 0]

OK .... Why do you think that going to a smaller canopy is the right idea to get more speed?

Why not learn to fly your canopy 100% - and then once you have done that, get it 100% of the time right. Then get a few hundred jumps on it.

I have seen a video of Scott Miller swooping a Sabre 170 ..... and he got some good distance.

Remember faster does not always mean further, if you are not doing the right technique. You are on the perfect size to learn and make mistakes without killing yourself.

Better never to have met you in my dream than to wake and reach for hands that are not there.

[katzurki 0]

Not to stray off the topic, but is the video in question available for download?

[Kris 0]

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Not to stray off the topic, but is the video in question available for download?

I don't know where that one is, but here's Scott Miller swooping the piss out of a Navigator 220.

This just goes to show that it's almost never the canopy, it's the pilot that matters.

Navigator Swoop

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[gjhdiver 0]

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There's a lot of experienced people reading this forum and I have a question to those who can help with my problem... I have 600 jumps on my sabre2 150 with wingloading 1.4 and I would like to buy a katana now... the best size would be 135 but the biggest produced is 120 at the moment.

Don't do it. You're not ready. Seriously.

I don't mean to cast aspersions on your ability, as I've never met you, but you're combining a lot of high risk factors there, and each one of them will exponentially add to the likelihood of you being involved in a serious accident. If you look at the fatality reports, the greatest percentage of the ones that take place under canopy show that most of the pilots made the same decisions that you are contemplating. That is, novice experience, a radical downsize, and a change of performance type.

The Sabre 2 is a relatively docile canopy, as it's designed to be. It has great performance if you choose to bring it out, but that's it's greatest advantage. You can choose to hook and surf if you want to, but it's not going to bite you instantly from inadevertant over controlling, and it's recovery arc is far more forgiving if you do.

I've put a fair few jumps on a Katana 120, and I think that's it a stellar canopy. However, I found that I had to be very involved with it from the second that I started coming up under the risers, and it required a lot of attention. It reacted instantly to even minor wieght shifts and control inputs, and there wasn't a dead spot anywhere in the relatively short control range.

I have close on 6000 jumps on Stiletto 135's and I found that just dropping one size to a Katana was quite a major change. It was enough to get my full attention. I'll get a couple eventually when the new season demands it.

My advice to you is to transition throught a more common elliptical like a Stiletto 135 and knock about 600 more jumps on that. By the time that you've done that, you'll have the starting set of skills to move down into the smaller numbers and the higher performace airfoils. You'll also unfortunately be reading about and seeing the results of those whose confidence in this area have outstripped their ability to accurately do a risk assessment on their choices.

At least you had the good sense to ask

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[headoverheels 333]

I'll second JP's recommendation of a Nitron or Nitro. Similar class to a Stiletto, a bit more bottom end flare, openings are more on-heading than the Stiletto or Katana. Less oversteer of toggle turns. The Nitro is made of the non-slick fabric, and packs up a bit larger than the Nitron.

Unlike Gareth, I find that the Katana has a long control range, compared to the Stiletto. With enough slack in the brake lines to allow front riser maneuvers, I have trouble stalling the Katana. Of couse, I don't have the ape-like arm length that Gareth enjoys.

[gjhdiver 0]

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Unlike Gareth, I find that the Katana has a long control range, compared to the Stiletto. With enough slack in the brake lines to allow front riser maneuvers, I have trouble stalling the Katana. Of couse, I don't have the ape-like arm length that Gareth enjoys.

And as you know, my fat ass loads a 120 quite nicely at 220 out the door, so I'm not expecting it to have the control range of a Navigator there....

[katzurki 0]

Sweet, thanks!

[diablopilot 2]

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I like the idea of a Crossfire2 129 which will be 1.6 winglodead and the construction is a bit newer then the Stilletto... any comments about that?

Eh, it dives longer than the Stiletto, and it's not my favorite canopy. Here's the deal. THe most sensible thing would be to not change wing loading much, but try a more eliptical planform. Second best would be to not change planform, but go ahead and increas the wingloading.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.