Poll: If I were buying a new Vector today I would:

[skip 0]

Just a friendly poll.

.:skip

[indyz 1]

I'm only saying leave it off because I wear a camera on most of my jumps.

[piisfish 140]

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I'm only saying leave it off because I wear a camera on most of my jumps.

me too, or as secondary rig for when I'm not using the camera...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Hooknswoop 19]

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In Reply To
I'm only saying leave it off because I wear a camera on most of my jumps.
me too, or as secondary rig for when I'm not using the camera...

You can disconnect it just like an RSL and it shouldn't be an issue with a camera, not like an RSL is.

Derek

[pilotdave 0]

If you plan to get an RSL, get the skyhook. It just improves on the RSL. If you don't want an RSL, well, ask yourself why that is, change your mind, and get a skyhook.

Waiting to get one later is a huge waste of money. It is far cheaper to get it installed originally than as a retrofit. And if you decide you don't like having an RSL, hook it to your cutaway housing and it won't bother you one bit.

Dave

[diablopilot 2]

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and it shouldn't be an issue with a camera, not like an RSL is.

Please explain.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[genitor 0]

I actually DID buy a new Vector today (well OK, yesterday, but close enough). I did not get the Skyhook. Even though it sounds great, and even my rigger said "You never know, it may save your life one day...", it just seems like it is still too new for something that is attached to my last chance for survival.

I would definitely consider it in a couple more problem-free years, though.

[Liemberg 0]

The only reason why I would consider a new Vector IS the skyhook. Then again, I think I understand how it works AND I pack my own reserve.

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Please explain.

The Skyhook won't send you off through the air with a reserve PC going who-knows-where. I think it would be almost impossible (anything is possible) to snag your reserve with a Skyhook cutaway.

Derek

[tdog 0]

I did buy a Vector. There were two other rigs I liked just as well as the Vector that had quicker lead times that would have saved me money in the long run on rental fees. The used market was real dry for my size, so I opted for new.

I did buy the skyhook. It was one of two reasons that I decided to wait for the Vector. I talked to someone who had a very positive skyhook experience at lower than normal cutaway altitudes.

I view it like this... The skyhook might deploy my reserve quicker. I will not change my decision altitudes or procedures because of this, just like I don't drive a car with airbags faster on icy roads.

But, a majority of the skydiving incidents are user error, and I know I am not perfect (or else my car would not have airbags or seatbelts), so perhaps if I, or a friend near me, really screws up badly, I pre-paid for a second chance at life.

I have seen two videos where the person was under reserve for less than a second before landing (and living injury free). If the skyhook can double that time – all the more power to it.

Now - I am working real hard to learn and practice everything that I need to never need the extra speed the skyhook offers. I sincerely hope, when I am old, I can tell the next generation – “The only thing the skyhook did for me was increase the chances of finding the free bag and PC attached to the main when I cutaway, thus paying for itself.” I hope I never have to say, “it saved my life.”

Have any of you cutaway on your vector with the skyhook, who can share what it is like? Not an intentional testing cutaway – but a real EP?

T.

[diablopilot 2]

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The Skyhook won't send you off through the air with a reserve PC going who-knows-where. I think it would be almost impossible (anything is possible) to snag your reserve with a Skyhook cutaway.

Agreed, the chance of a tumble is less after cutaway. That however is not the objection with RSL's and Camera (or CRW, or SkySurf, etc.). The big problem is making sure your added equipment has not snagged your main. If so you will need to clear you equipment (read: possibly ditch your helmet) before deploying you reserve to avoid firing into a mess.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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The big problem is making sure your added equipment has not snagged your main.

I could see this, but you should notice if your main risers are snagged on your helmet before you cutaway. If a line or other part of the main is snagged, it should be VERY obvious.

Camera helmets should be snag resistant as much as possible. That is why the only camera helmet I ever jumped is a Sidewinder. No way can anything snag that helmet. Of course, it isn't set up for a still camera.

Derek

[billbooth 10]

RSL's and cameras;

1. If you snag your left riser only on cutaway (with a right mounted RSL), your RSL will activate your reserve, but that will most likely be the least of your problems. You will now be under a rapidly spinning canopy, creating lots of "G's", SUSPENDED BY YOUR NECK, and most likely quickly dead. Does your camera release operate under high load?
2. If you snag your right riser (or both) on your camera with a right mounted RSL, the RSL will not activate on cutaway, but you will still be suspended, at least partially, by your neck.

It would make a lot of sense, if you suspect riser entanglement with your camera, to cut away the camera first. It would also make sense to use the most snag free mounts available. To prevent suspension line entanglement, I would suggest longer risers for camera jumpers.

If you don't have an RSL, you are probably going to deploy your reserve at terminal. How much experience do you have launching a spring loaded pilot chute through a burble, especially the extra large one that can be created by camera wings? A burbling pilot chute, and 15 foot long freebag bridle, represent a rather significant snag hazard when bouncing around behind you head.

Knowing this, a Skyhook just might be a good idea for camera jumpers. (I am not one, by the way.)

[diablopilot 2]

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If you don't have an RSL, you are probably going to deploy your reserve at terminal.

Why? You needednt take a large delay, just ensure seperation, that takes all of about 1/2 a second.

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Knowing this, a Skyhook just might be a good idea for camera jumpers.

I disagree. The SkyHook is an RSL that deploys the reserve faster. It still stands that one of the problems with RSL's and Camera flyers exists.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ChrisL 2]

I cant really vote because I DID buy a new Vector 3 a year ago and I DID have it equipped with a skyhook.

A year later and 100 or so jumps on the new rig and I'm still VERY happy with my purchase and would buy another without hesitation.

I cant speak to how well the skyhook will function as I have not had any cutaways but I'm 100% confident that if
the need arises, that it will function as advertised.

P.S. I dont currently jump with a camera.

__

My mighty steed

[koz2000 1]

I've got one Micron w/ a Skyhook and one without. I've been able to jump the cut-away rig and was very impressed and I've seen a real Skyhook deployment (on my store's demo canopy) and it performed flawlessly. I recommend it to anyone buying a Vector.

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- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -

[bliston 0]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1368366;#1368366

Check the about thread for what I think was a very thorough discussion on this topic. Sorry, too computer illiterate to make it a link.

Ben

Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website


sticks!

[koz2000 1]

I was at Skydive Atlanta's Halloween Freefly Fest, and there was a skyhook intentional cutaway where the jumper released the left riser but not the right. It was one of the most violent malfunctions I have ever seen. Instead of spinning around the canopy, it appeared the canopy and jumper were spinning as they were a top ( the old kid's toy ) The reserve did have a few line twists. However that malfunction could only happen if your riser broke (both front and back) , the three ring was not properly attached, the main ring or harness fails, or both front and back line connectors break.

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- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -

[AggieDave 6]

A Micron is my next rig. It will definately be with a Skyhook.

All it took was a demo jump with the skyhook cutaway rig for me to decide that. It felt like a tandem trap door. So I'm going to give up my beloved Wings (I do love my container) for a Micron only so I can get a Skyhook.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[riggerrob 643]

Most of the arguments against cameramen wearing RSL or Skyhook are related to obsolete helmets. By obsolete helmets, I mean camera helmets with multiple snag points.
That is why I only jump camera with an old-school Bonehead full-box and my next camera helmet will be a 2K Composites, neither of which has significant snag points.

Skyhook is the only reason I would buy a Micron over its leading competitors: Infinity and Mirage.
If you are going to buy an RSL, might as well buy the best RSL: Skyhook.

[pilotdave 0]

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the jumper released the left riser but not the right. It was one of the most violent malfunctions I have ever seen... However that malfunction could only happen if your riser broke (both front and back) , the three ring was not properly attached, the main ring or harness fails, or both front and back line connectors break.

Or if the jumper doesn't complete the cutaway. Luckily if the right riser breaks, the collins lanyard will release the left riser so you don't get into a situation like this: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1575.

This particular one wasn't a broken riser. The jumper cut away and pulled his reserve. Only then did he realize that he had only pulled the cutaway cable far enough to release his right riser. But I'm sure this is pretty much what an RSL-side broken riser would look like on any rig without a collins lanyard.

Dave

[koz2000 1]

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This particular one wasn't a broken riser. The jumper cut away and pulled his reserve. Only then did he realize that he had only pulled the cutaway cable far enough to release his right riser. But I'm sure this is pretty much what an RSL-side broken riser would look like on any rig without a collins lanyard

I didn't put the not completing the cut away since as far as I know, every rig equipped w/ a Skyhook has a Collins Lanyard.

Blue ones and merry christmas
D

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- Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes -