Gear opinions, please?

[mnealtx 0]

I'll be in the process of buying new gear (or new to me) in the next several months. I've read the comparison threads and reviews and still cant make up my mind. I'd appreciate honest opinions about the gear listed below. If anyone DOESN'T recommend a canopy, I'd especially like to know the reasons.

I don't have the opportunity to demo since I work overseas and am only home for 2 weeks twice a year to be able to jump. I don't see any way to be able to demo all the canopies in 2 weekends of jumping. I'll also be asking my instructor's opinions, but want to have a 'baseline' of sorts when I talk to them.

Info:
Low number jumper. Less than 100 jumps expected yearly, at least at first (the next 2-3 years at least).

Weight:
Exit weight around 220-230.

Preference:
A solid, dependable canopy I can learn on. Safety before performance - I don't need a 'twitchy' canopy at this point in my skydiving career. I'm looking for a combination of good maneuverability, glide and flare and not necessarily the BEST of each in one canopy.

I will be using this canopy until I've wrung out everything I can do with it before dropping to the next size down. I will also be taking a canopy control course (or several) as my vacation schedule permits.

Choices -
Main (perhapes used):
Sabre 2, Spectre, Pilot and Triathlon.
Choices in these canopies will be 230 ft^2 with the exception of the Pilot, as it only goes to 210 ft^2 from what I see on the Aerodyne site.

Reserve (perhaps used):
PDR 235 or Smart 220.
Again, I'm leaning more toward the larger reserve due to loading, and as it is more nylon above my head if something goes wrong.

Container will be a Vector 3 w/skyhook.

Thanks in advance for advice/opinions.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Fab 0]

hello mnealtx,

Besides reading reviews I would strongly recommend that you demo one. You might otherwise end up with a chute you don't really like

Most people downsize rather quickly from a 0.9 wingload. Are you sure you want to buy everything new? Maybe buying used is a better option, especially if you don't jump that often.

If you really want to buy new, buy a rig in which you can downsize a bit...

Do you know what the differences are of a 7 and 9 cell chute? First I would decided which kind of chute you want.

"I'm looking for good maneuverability, glide and flare." If it's good glide ratio you want you go for a 9 cell (the pilot, sabre2). The pilot and sabre2 are both very nice chutes. I have flown both but like the pilot just a little bit more. Other people like the sabre2 more. It's personal and that why you should be demoing both of them before you buy.
The silhouette is also very nice.

Both reserves are good choices. Just put one in the rig which fits the best. The differences in size (235 or 220) are probably so small you won't even notice them in flight.

There's a lot of info in other threads about buying your first gear and wether or not to buy new/used..read them all .

take a look at this too
http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Gear_and_Equipment/index.shtml

_______________________________________

[nate_1979 9]

Quote

Most people downsize rather quickly from a 0.9 wingload.

Yet, at the same time, there are those of us who know there will be LONG layoffs between jumps and choose to stay at a pretty low wingloading, which it sounds like he may be doing.. I personally stay on a boat below 1:1 because I know that I may very well end up with half a year + between jumps due to military obligations... Dont wanna have a rig that I wont wanna jump when I have not been up in awhile... I plan on staying below 1:1 for another couple of years myself.. Just my 2 cents

For the origional post, I really liked the Pilot that I flew, although I only flew it one time, I thoght it had a really good flare and it flew nice, but note the low jump #s, :) You didnt mention it, but I fly a PA Fusion now, I love that canopy..

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[mnealtx 0]

Thanks for the advice/opinions, guys - that's exactly the type of thing I was looking for.

Doing a demo is most likely not possible due to my work commitments (see original post). I'd love to be able to demo the mains and reserves (set up to jump as mains) but I don't see a way to do it all in the 2-3 weekends I would have at home, only jumping Fri-Mon (my home DZ is Skydive Houston).

I'm not averse to buying the canopies used, but I will definitely be buying the container new. All the student gear I've ever used has been uncomfortable at the least, and sometimes painfully so.

Nate: I'm basically in the same situation you're in. I'm oversease supporting the military and only get home to where I can jump a couple times a year.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[tdog 0]

Gee - your rig is gonna look a lot like mine... Almost identical… We even have the same exit weight, perhaps I have 5 pounds more or so… Lets see what Christmas does to that, I might need to get a larger canopy.

I went with Vector III - Skyhook, PD Reserve 218, Cyrpres2, and the Aerodyne Pilot 210. I wanted used for my first rig – but the market was dry for someone of my height, weight, and preferred canopy age/size… So I got new.

I did not have the opportunity to demo the Pilot, because, well, you need a container to demo it in... But there is a good end of year sale on the Aerodyne products right now – and I got the Pilot for such a good price I am confident that I could sell it used after a summer and break even, or damn close. If I don’t like it, I have little to lose since my container is speced to take just about any 190-210 canopy. So call it a demo that I own.

I demoed vicariously thru a friend or two at the DZ. I know a guy who really liked the Pilot after a demo, so much so, when I asked him how the demo went after his first jump, he said, "I have never had a canopy open that well before." After two weekends, I asked again, and he said, “I purchased it, does that tell you how much I liked it.” He is selling his Sabre2 because he felt the consistent off heading openings was a safety concern now that he joined a 4-way team. Everyone who does not like the Pilot said something like, “I heard it flies great but lands like shit”… But others disagree… I guess I will find out… One thing is for sure – canopies are like cars – everyone has an opinion and you have to make up your own mind.

The Spectre is what I have been renting. I have had a lot of fun on it, and, I found the seven cell a bit easier to pack than the 9cell… Less lines to handle.… If someone gave me a canopy for Christmas (I can dream, can’t I), I would not mind the Spectre at all. You can see by my current jump numbers, I am no expert here, but, I do have some paraglidng experience that has transferred over, so I have been a little more aggressive on the risers and toggles than some of my peers… (Of course, above 1500’ and away from others.) I know I could learn a lot on the Spectre before needing to move up on wing loading, while at the same time, it recovered from aggressive riser/toggle turns, heavly loaded 360s, and stalls without scaring me like another canopy did… But, that might make it too easy to fly long term, thus I chose something else... My only complaint - it opens so slow and smoothly I actually would not mind being under a fully inflated canopy a bit sooner.

So, in a nutshell - The Pilot, Lotus and Spectre were my final three I picked from... I narrowed my list down to after talking for days with a bunch of people and my instructors.

I have nothing to gain from the following or else I would not post it… I was very happy with my purchase from Dominic at Square 1. We logged a few hours on the phone, and I learned a lot from him... I would make this referal to my best friend. PM me if you want more details.

[riggerrob 643]

Everyone who does not like the Pilot said something like, “I heard it flies great but lands like shit”…

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The exact opposite of my experience.
I was only able to make one jump on a Pilot 150.
Loved the opening, found turns to be tame up high.
But it surprised me down low. To correct an overshoot, I pulled down on the front risers, released them at my normal altitude, then was pleasantly surprised at how far, how fast, how gracefully and how easily the canopy flattened out and swooped across the bowl!!!
Hee!
Hee!
Way too much fun!
Way too easy!
On that one jump, I learned that Pilot 150 has a HUGE sweet spot for landing!

[riggerrob 643]

Good short list.
I also applaud your conservative decision on canopy sizes. Let's face it, you will be rusty the first few days of every vacation. Far wiser to hang under a "boring" canopy than to spend your vacation in a hospital.

Pilot and Sabre 2 are both great canopies. I have hundreds of jumps on original Sabres and enjoyed the Sabre 2 that I borrowed back in the spring.
... only made one jump on a Pilot 150, but loved it! If I had the cash, I would buy a Pilot today.

Spectres are most popular with casual weekend jumpers, who just want a tame, low-stress canopy ride ... kind of like your profile.

Triathlons are seen as specialty canopies for people who are planning to get into accuracy, wingsuit, BASE or canopy formations. Accuracy, wingsuit and BASE all require large, docile canopies, so your first rig might just end up as your wingsuit rig after a few years.

[Fab 0]

The pilot seems to have better openings then the sabre2.

I have demoed the smart 175 and have nothing but praise for it. Was my first jump on a 7-cell and it felt very reliably. The flare was pretty powerful and my landing was very easy. The smart flies very forgiving..slow speed and turns....I couldn't get it to spiral quickly with normal toggle input . As my wingloading on it was 1.2, your smart will fly even more forgiving.

I would go for a pilot/smart/vector or a pilot/pdr/vector.

You can't go wrong with either choice

_______________________________________

[mnealtx 0]

Again, THANK YOU everyone - these are exactly the type of inputs I was hoping to get! I'd still love to hear more opinions if anyone else wishes to chime in, though.

I keep hearing more and more good things about the Pilot - y'all are SERIOUSLY tempting me!

To be honest, in my mind the Pilot and the Spectre are pretty much neck and neck (except for the sizing difference) with the Sabre 2 running 3rd and Triathlon 4th. Since I'm currently on a diet, who knows what my final exit weight will be? I'm not going to kick the Pilot off the list over 20 ft^2 just yet. The absolute MAX I am considering for WL is 1.1:1, so it's still in the running even if I stay the same weight with a WL of 1.05:1.

Reserves are still a tossup - I know that the PDR is pretty much the "Gold Standard" for reserves, but I'm hearing a lot of great things about the Smart, as well.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

My exit weight is about 10 lbs higher than your's.

I was close to buying the Pilot, but I was going to have to drop the 10lbs before I'd get the 210. I've done 6 or 7 jumps with the Spectre 210 and it was a bit exciting, while the 230 or a Fusion 230 with a non collapsible PC was pretty easy.

Then I found a good deal on a Tri 220 used (less than half a new Pilot) and that made the decision easier. I liked the Tri, packing the 7 cell is easier, and I won't suffer much depreciation if/when it's appropriate to get a 210 or 190. That's more key for me since my exit weight should (hopefully!) trend down 20-30 more.

[Nightingale 0]

I've got a spectre and a silhouette, and have demoed a sabre2.

My favorite of the three is the silhouette. flies great, lands great, and easy to pack because it's a ZP/F111 hybrid.

I liked the spectre, opens really soft and lands nicely.

The sabre2 I demoed consistently opened off heading, but once open, flew and landed beautifully.

[mnealtx 0]

That off-heading thing is one of the things that makes me put the Sabre 2 in 3rd place behind the Pilot and Spectre.

I just saw where Aerodyne has the Pilot on sale until the end of the year, too.... more and more tempting!!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Nightingale 0]

I'd really encourage you to demo a silhouette. It was a wonderful beginner canopy for me, and less expensive than some of the others (around $1400 at square 1 as opposed to the sabre2, which is about $200 more)

My boyfriend jumps a pilot and loves it. I've never jumped one, so I really can't say.

[mnealtx 0]

No opportunity to demo over here in Kosovo, though... I don't know if I'll be able to set anything up in the limited time I'll have available on vacation come spring.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[cheneyneel 0]

Man go with the Sabre2. i dont really have an argument for the canopy against others.. I just like the nine cells and the flying characteristics are great w/ the sabre2.... It does open funny at first until it breaks in and until you let the canopy fly its own opening.. but your canopy will be big enought that it is not going to get mad and dive violently to the ground.. Get the Sabre.. plus they have incredible resale value... I dont care what anyone else says but they will resale the quickest....

[GTAVercetti 0]

Quote

Spectres are most popular with casual weekend jumpers, who just want a tame, low-stress canopy ride ... kind of like your profile.

I disagree with the "casual weekend jumpers" fly Spectres. While I do only jump on weekends (my DZ is only open then), I do not consider myself casual about it. I think the Spectre is a great canopy on which to start learning to fly a canopy and its forgiving characteristics have helped me learn alot.

I fly a Spectre 210 at the moment and have a Spectre 170 waiting for a container. I agree that the canopy is rather docile but you can still do alot with it once you really learn to fly it. It has been great for me in this early stage of my progression.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Unstable 9]

Quote

That off-heading thing is one of the things that makes me put the Sabre 2 in 3rd place behind the Pilot and Spectre.

Ya know, I have something to add to this. I jump a Sabre2, and at first, the Off-heading openings were a mere annoyance. I heard all sorts of jumpers complain about the Sabre2's "characteristic" off-heading openings. Well, the more I jump my canopy the less credit I give to these complaints. Once I learned to Fly the openings and not let my body-position become sloppy at pull-time, the openings Improved dramastically. I don't think I have had an off-heading opening in well over 50 jumps on my Sabre2, which I am loading around. 1.4. It's all in the Body Position, IMHO.

Looking back at it, I WISH I would have bought a Spectre. I wanted one, and I let my gear dealer influence me to buy a Sabre2. This is all an issue of apples & Oranges - I just liked the way the Spectre Opened and Flew. But the Sabre2 has been a real sweatheart and I have no complaints about this canopy. It's a tried & proven design, and has excellent resale value. There really is nothing bad to say about the Sabre2.

I see you have looked at the Vector3 for your Harness/Container System. Excellent Choice. It's a matter of opinion, there is nothing wrong with the Vector System, but when I was buying new gear, I ended up favoring the New Racer 2K3 over the Vector 3 with Skyhook. Call up JumpShack and ask them what they can do for you, and visit with them about their design. Even if you go with the Vector, you can still learn a lot....

Congratulations on your desicion to buy new Gear - I hope that whatever you get, it will make you happy and bring you lots of good jumping! Make sure to post online here once you get it!!

This post has been edited for spelling only....

=========Shaun ==========

[pilotdave 0]

Quote

It's all in the Body Position, IMHO.

I assumed that my off heading openings were due to body position for a long time, but I just can't believe I haven't had proper body position at least once, even if by mistake, in my last 200+ jumps. I honsetly don't remember the last time I had an on-heading opening. I think I may have when I rented a sabre2 at Deland over the summer...not sure.

I don't know what I could be doing wrong with my body during the snivel, because it doesn't turn until the very end of the opening. It always turns JUST as I'm saying to myself "wow, it opened on-heading!" Anywhere from 90 degrees to 360....usually more like 180.

But I still love the Sabre2 and would recommend it. I know they don't all do what mine does, and it might very well be my fault. Off heading openings don't bother me too much anyway. Almost never causes line twists, and when it does have twists, it flies straight for me.

And I just don't "get" racers. I hear they're extremely comfortable and the company is great. But what are the real advantages of a racer over a vector3 or anything else? My DZ has a LOT of racers. Everyone that owns them just seems to keep buying them cause that's what they always have had.

Dave

[nate_1979 9]

Quote

I don't know what I could be doing wrong with my body during the snivel, because it doesn't turn until the very end of the opening. It always turns JUST as I'm saying to myself "wow, it opened on-heading!" Anywhere from 90 degrees to 360....usually more like 180.

A little off topic due to the fact that I dont jump a sabre, but I did have another thread a bit ago saying that my canopy did exactly the same thing, it would snivel and look like everything was perfect, then at the last second go into a sharp turn... Although I always figured I was keeping my leg straps even, someone told me to really pay attention to how tight each one was and to ensure they were even.. Anyway, I really started paying alot of attention to how I tightened them, and since then I have not had ANY problems with my openings.. Something to look at? Maby not

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[Unstable 9]

Quote

I assumed that my off heading openings were due to body position for a long time, but I just can't believe I haven't had proper body position at least once, even if by mistake, in my last 200+ jumps. I honsetly don't remember the last time I had an on-heading opening. I think I may have when I rented a sabre2 at Deland over the summer...not sure.

I don't know what I could be doing wrong with my body during the snivel, because it doesn't turn until the very end of the opening. It always turns JUST as I'm saying to myself "wow, it opened on-heading!" Anywhere from 90 degrees to 360....usually more like 180.

But I still love the Sabre2 and would recommend it. I know they don't all do what mine does, and it might very well be my fault. Off heading openings don't bother me too much anyway. Almost never causes line twists, and when it does have twists, it flies straight for me.

Hearing this makes me wonder if it is particular to Wing Loading or perhaps inconsistancies coming from the Factory... I just don't know - I was just sharing my particular experience....

Quote

And I just don't "get" racers. I hear they're extremely comfortable and the company is great. But what are the real advantages of a racer over a vector3 or anything else? My DZ has a LOT of racers. Everyone that owns them just seems to keep buying them cause that's what they always have had.

They are a good Container. They are Really comfy and the People at JumpShack are a pleasure to work with. Almost every container manufacturer out there has their own benchmark and beliefs as to what makes a good harness/container system. A Racer just makes sense to me. It just works....

=========Shaun ==========

[mnealtx 0]

I had considered the Racer, as well as the Javelin, Wings and Icon when I was looking at containers. Each one has it's own advantages and disadvantages over the other containers in my mind.

One of the deciding factors, to me, was the Skyhook. As I said, I will be having to get "re-current" every time I go home on vacation, and anything that stacks the odds a bit further in my direction is a good thing, in my opinion.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Unstable 9]

Quote

One of the deciding factors, to me, was the Skyhook. As I said, I will be having to get "re-current" every time I go home on vacation, and anything that stacks the odds a bit further in my direction is a good thing, in my opinion.

Excellent Thought. I think you could be very happy with a Spectre/Vector3 combination! Just make sure to get the Local riggers/Dealers/Instructors in on this..

=========Shaun ==========

[mnealtx 0]

I've been talking to several people both here and via PM's, and I've pretty much settled on the Spectre 230 unless something pretty major changes.

I need to get hold of RWS and find out the exact container sizing of the 357M/358M. I *may* end up having to go to a PDR218 rather than the 235 depending on the container.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[PhreeZone 20]

When you order the container tell RWS what canopies you are putting in it and they will build the rig around them. The sizing chart is a great reference, but RWS will work with you to put in just the canopies you want usually.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mnealtx 0]

I figured that would be the case, but I wasn't 100% sure about it. Thanks!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706