peckerhead 0 #1 January 7, 2005 I am taking a senior riggers certification course in Feb. and I am looking for suggestions as to what would be the minimum tools needed to get started as a rigger. (just packing no sewing machines yet) I have packed many reserves over the years but I always borrowed tools. I am just looking for the minimum needed for packing reserves, I can always add on as I go. Here is the list I have so far: Temp pins shot bags T handle (crank) Packing plate Molar strap Bodkins Fids Press and seals Rubber bands Packing paddles Tool bag or box to put everything in I know this will be covered in the class I am just trying to get a jump on things. What would you riggers recommend for a starters kit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
overmyhead 0 #2 January 7, 2005 line Protector and GET A HAMMER TO BIT UP THE MOLAR STRAP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #3 January 7, 2005 Cypres pull up cord material Flat tack, wax cord Selection of needles, straight and curved Locking pull cord for molar bag Black, indelible/permanent felt tip 22 cal. clean rod Several yards of red, orange or pink 1" Type III tape. Flag every tool with 24 to 30" if this tape. Make yourself a check sheet, use it every time and always follow the same procedure. Good rigging to you.SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #4 January 7, 2005 Logbook Ruler Kneeplate Positive Tension Closing Device Feeler/thickness guage And throw away the molar strap. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #5 January 7, 2005 Quote And throw away the molar strap. Derek that's a little harsh! I've been using one as a belt for years!!!!!Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #6 January 7, 2005 Quote that's a little harsh! I've been using one as a belt for years!!!!! LOL- OK maybe I was a bit hasty. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #7 January 8, 2005 QuoteQuote And throw away the molar strap. Derek that's a little harsh! I've been using one as a belt for years!!!!! I use the buckle to secure my canopy hanger. Works great. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #8 January 8, 2005 I still use a molar strap however it's 2 inches wide and 60 inches long.....NO chace of being left inside a pack job. I made it in 1987 and seems to be working fine.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #9 January 8, 2005 QuoteI still use a molar strap however it's 2 inches wide and 60 inches long.....NO chace of being left inside a pack job. I made it in 1987 and seems to be working fine.... A friend of mine thought someone stole his frap hat while he was packing. After 20 minutes of ranting and raving he found it in his main bag with the canopy. It is amazing what can be packing in with a parachute. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #10 January 8, 2005 QuoteI still use a molar strap however it's 2 inches wide and 60 inches long.....NO chace of being left inside a pack job. I made it in 1987 and seems to be working fine.... I still use mine also.... Also made mine using 2" red webbing and a good 5'long...I can not see how a rigger could not see or remember they used it... Maybe it's just us master riggers that use them Killer.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #11 January 8, 2005 QuoteQuoteI still use a molar strap however it's 2 inches wide and 60 inches long.....NO chace of being left inside a pack job. I made it in 1987 and seems to be working fine.... I still use mine also.... Also made mine using 2" red webbing and a good 5'long...I can not see how a rigger could not see or remember they used it... Maybe it's just us master riggers that use them Killer.... Some of us don't need them to get the canopy in the bag. Technique has always seemed to work just fine. There is always a "chance", if you can imagine it, it can happen. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #12 January 8, 2005 I have found my pack jobs are neater without it. The molar strap doesn't hold the pack job nearly as well as two hands and two knees does and it distorts it. I also think that by compressing the center, the potentional for the lines to be squeezed out from the center is there. The added bonus of using one less tool and a tool with the potential to be very dangerious is nice too. I use a extra long packing paddle and a large plate to make the folds with clamps holding the top 1/2 of the canopy in place. This keeps the canopy very neat and the lines aren't disturbed. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #13 January 8, 2005 Sorry for the thread drift. I do not use clamps. A Navy rigger died when she left one in. I really only use the molar strap on tandems (size) and pack jobs where I want a near "zero thickness) in the middle (racers and smetimes wings) if you use a ckeck sheet or pegboard with the tool outlined, you can avoid many pitfalls IMO. Tim T. Team Paraclete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
killler 2 #14 January 8, 2005 QuoteSorry for the thread drift. I do not use clamps. A Navy rigger died when she left one in. I really only use the molar strap on tandems (size) and pack jobs where I want a near "zero thickness) in the middle (racers and smetimes wings) if you use a ckeck sheet or pegboard with the tool outlined, you can avoid many pitfalls IMO. Tim T. Team Paraclete No clamps needed/used in my repacks... Killer.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #15 January 8, 2005 QuoteI do not use clamps. A Navy rigger died when she left one in. They really make the pack job cleaner and I can't see how one could be left on, the canopy won't go in the bag with one on. I use big clamps. I also clamp them onto my extra long paddle as I remove them so I can ensure I have all 6. I think the thread is still on topic, i.e. what should be in a riggers kit. No right or wrong answers, just what works for each riiger. I think it is very good for newer riggers to hear stuff like this, so they can hear different opinions and ideas and then decide for themselves. I didn't have the luxury of being able the hear/read stuff like this and have had to figure a lot out for myself. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 January 8, 2005 QuoteLogbook Ruler Kneeplate Feeler/thickness guage And throw away the molar strap. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Better yet: throw away your "Positive Tension Closing Device" and replace it with a B-12 Snap. If you slip the B-12 Snap onto the Molar Strap and wrap the Molar strap around your shoulders - diagonally - you end up with a hook hanging at the middle of your chest: the perfect place to tie on a Cypres pull-up cord. How you can forget a molar strap - when you need it close the last flap - is a mystery to me. "Positive Tension Closing Devices" were banned by CSPA long before I started rigging ... 21 years ago! While you are throwing out tools, throw out Steel T-Bodkns. Bodkins have frustrated a generation of riggers and they were rendered obsolete when Cypres was introduced ... 14 years ago. Far better to hit-up Jump Shack for a free "ghost loop." Oh, and while you are throwing out tools, forget about finger-trapping fids, because wires are way easier and cheaper. I got my tools for free, "borrowed" the lock wire aircraft mechanic. Oh, and small packing weights are only relevant when packing rounds. They are a bad habit when packing squares. A couple of times I noticed that the freebag was unusually "heavy," and opened it to find a small packing weight. That was the last time I used a small weight with a square. A feeler guage is nice, but my thumb nail is also about 0.1" thick, about the maximum gap under a grommet edge. If my thumbnail will slip under the edge of a grommet, it gets whacked again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #17 January 8, 2005 QuoteBetter yet: throw away your "Positive Tension Closing Device" and replace it with a B-12 Snap. If you slip the B-12 Snap onto the Molar Strap and wrap the Molar strap around your shoulders - diagonally - you end up with a hook hanging at the middle of your chest: the perfect place to tie on a Cypres pull-up cord. How you can forget a molar strap - when you need it close the last flap - is a mystery to me. "Positive Tension Closing Devices" were banned by CSPA long before I started rigging ... 21 years ago! I've tried using a B-12. Didn't like it. A PTCD allows me to control the tension easier and more accurately. I don't think they are a bda idea, just not for me. I don't know why they would outlaw PTCD's. Why did they? I've never damaged a rig or overtightened one with it. QuoteWhile you are throwing out tools, throw out Steel T-Bodkns. Bodkins have frustrated a generation of riggers and they were rendered obsolete when Cypres was introduced ... 14 years ago. Far better to hit-up Jump Shack for a free "ghost loop." They work great on pilot's rigs and I don't pack pop tops, so I'll keep my steel bodkins. QuoteOh, and while you are throwing out tools, forget about finger-trapping fids, because wires are way easier and cheaper. I got my tools for free, "borrowed" the lock wire aircraft mechanic. I have both. Depends on what I am doing for which type I'll use. For replaceing kill lines the fid works better. QuoteOh, and small packing weights are only relevant when packing rounds. They are a bad habit when packing squares. A couple of times I noticed that the freebag was unusually "heavy," and opened it to find a small packing weight. That was the last time I used a small weight with a square. I don't use weights on square canopies. One in the container and one on the lines, but they are both huge and impossible to pack into the canopy or container. My round packing weights are type 12 folded over to make 4 foot long weights with 4 foot flags. I don't think it is possible to pack one of those into a canopy either. QuoteA feeler guage is nice, but my thumb nail is also about 0.1" thick, about the maximum gap under a grommet edge. If my thumbnail will slip under the edge of a grommet, it gets whacked again! That's a good idea. I bought it because of a SB on Reflex's, but I don't pack those anymore. I think I'll replace it with a fingernail. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites usskydiver 0 #18 January 8, 2005 I also have a digital fisherman's scale (rated to 50 lbs) that I use to check every rig when it is temp pinned on the last flap. No, I don't check at the handle but it give me a "warm fuzzy" when I see a good looking rig come in at about 15 lbs at the pin. It's made by Rapala Tim T. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #19 January 8, 2005 QuoteSorry for the thread drift. I do not use clamps. A Navy rigger died when she left one in. I really only use the molar strap on tandems (size) and pack jobs where I want a near "zero thickness) in the middle (racers and smetimes wings) if you use a ckeck sheet or pegboard with the tool outlined, you can avoid many pitfalls IMO. Tim T. Team Paraclete That was Misty, she was a Navy Test Jumper/Rigger. She was not the one who left the clamp on the reserve, she just had the bad luck to jump that rig that day. The Navy ruled use of an "unauthorized" packing device. But the manual on that type of rig calls for the use of clamps. The clamp was not flagged. Sad day for Test Jumpers. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites usskydiver 0 #20 January 9, 2005 Michael, I read the official report and understand what happened, however...the clamp that contributed to her death had no flag!!...my molar strap (not used on every pack job) is 6 FEET long and has a specific place in my tool box!. I cannot place my tools in order (or complete my check sheet) without it being where it belongs.... My point is this...I have, own, and use a molar strap with great results when I do use it. It's a tool....and a tool should be appied appropriately.... Tim T. Team Paraclete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunshine 2 #21 January 9, 2005 QuoteAnd throw away the molar strap. Just cause you don't like it or use one, doesn't mean other people shouldn't. I much prefer using one when i pack. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #22 January 9, 2005 QuoteJust cause you don't like it or use one, doesn't mean other people shouldn't. I much prefer using one when i pack. Like I said earlier; "No right or wrong answers, just what works for each rigger." If you want to use and it works for you, go for it. Dave Dewolf has a great reserve packing manual, generic, that shows packing w/o a molar strap. It comes out very neat and clean. It's on the internet somewhere. Probably on his web site. Try it once or twice. You may like it. If not, well you tried. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites koz2000 1 #23 January 10, 2005 DeWolf's Packing Instructions www.paraloft.com______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #24 January 10, 2005 The whole Cypres packers kit I think is needed. The pad, the silicone, the needles and the spool of cypres cord.. I usually end up using all of it on every repack. The pad to lubricate pull up cords on non-Poptops, the silicone to top off the pad if its dry, the Needles to make a new closing loop, and the cord for a new loop (I put a new one on every time).Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrig 1 #25 January 10, 2005 If you can, get with a rigger and get some ideas from him/her. I'll bet, he'll be more than happy to help. See which tools he/she has. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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Hooknswoop 19 #17 January 8, 2005 QuoteBetter yet: throw away your "Positive Tension Closing Device" and replace it with a B-12 Snap. If you slip the B-12 Snap onto the Molar Strap and wrap the Molar strap around your shoulders - diagonally - you end up with a hook hanging at the middle of your chest: the perfect place to tie on a Cypres pull-up cord. How you can forget a molar strap - when you need it close the last flap - is a mystery to me. "Positive Tension Closing Devices" were banned by CSPA long before I started rigging ... 21 years ago! I've tried using a B-12. Didn't like it. A PTCD allows me to control the tension easier and more accurately. I don't think they are a bda idea, just not for me. I don't know why they would outlaw PTCD's. Why did they? I've never damaged a rig or overtightened one with it. QuoteWhile you are throwing out tools, throw out Steel T-Bodkns. Bodkins have frustrated a generation of riggers and they were rendered obsolete when Cypres was introduced ... 14 years ago. Far better to hit-up Jump Shack for a free "ghost loop." They work great on pilot's rigs and I don't pack pop tops, so I'll keep my steel bodkins. QuoteOh, and while you are throwing out tools, forget about finger-trapping fids, because wires are way easier and cheaper. I got my tools for free, "borrowed" the lock wire aircraft mechanic. I have both. Depends on what I am doing for which type I'll use. For replaceing kill lines the fid works better. QuoteOh, and small packing weights are only relevant when packing rounds. They are a bad habit when packing squares. A couple of times I noticed that the freebag was unusually "heavy," and opened it to find a small packing weight. That was the last time I used a small weight with a square. I don't use weights on square canopies. One in the container and one on the lines, but they are both huge and impossible to pack into the canopy or container. My round packing weights are type 12 folded over to make 4 foot long weights with 4 foot flags. I don't think it is possible to pack one of those into a canopy either. QuoteA feeler guage is nice, but my thumb nail is also about 0.1" thick, about the maximum gap under a grommet edge. If my thumbnail will slip under the edge of a grommet, it gets whacked again! That's a good idea. I bought it because of a SB on Reflex's, but I don't pack those anymore. I think I'll replace it with a fingernail. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #18 January 8, 2005 I also have a digital fisherman's scale (rated to 50 lbs) that I use to check every rig when it is temp pinned on the last flap. No, I don't check at the handle but it give me a "warm fuzzy" when I see a good looking rig come in at about 15 lbs at the pin. It's made by Rapala Tim T. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #19 January 8, 2005 QuoteSorry for the thread drift. I do not use clamps. A Navy rigger died when she left one in. I really only use the molar strap on tandems (size) and pack jobs where I want a near "zero thickness) in the middle (racers and smetimes wings) if you use a ckeck sheet or pegboard with the tool outlined, you can avoid many pitfalls IMO. Tim T. Team Paraclete That was Misty, she was a Navy Test Jumper/Rigger. She was not the one who left the clamp on the reserve, she just had the bad luck to jump that rig that day. The Navy ruled use of an "unauthorized" packing device. But the manual on that type of rig calls for the use of clamps. The clamp was not flagged. Sad day for Test Jumpers. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #20 January 9, 2005 Michael, I read the official report and understand what happened, however...the clamp that contributed to her death had no flag!!...my molar strap (not used on every pack job) is 6 FEET long and has a specific place in my tool box!. I cannot place my tools in order (or complete my check sheet) without it being where it belongs.... My point is this...I have, own, and use a molar strap with great results when I do use it. It's a tool....and a tool should be appied appropriately.... Tim T. Team Paraclete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #21 January 9, 2005 QuoteAnd throw away the molar strap. Just cause you don't like it or use one, doesn't mean other people shouldn't. I much prefer using one when i pack. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #22 January 9, 2005 QuoteJust cause you don't like it or use one, doesn't mean other people shouldn't. I much prefer using one when i pack. Like I said earlier; "No right or wrong answers, just what works for each rigger." If you want to use and it works for you, go for it. Dave Dewolf has a great reserve packing manual, generic, that shows packing w/o a molar strap. It comes out very neat and clean. It's on the internet somewhere. Probably on his web site. Try it once or twice. You may like it. If not, well you tried. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koz2000 1 #23 January 10, 2005 DeWolf's Packing Instructions www.paraloft.com______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #24 January 10, 2005 The whole Cypres packers kit I think is needed. The pad, the silicone, the needles and the spool of cypres cord.. I usually end up using all of it on every repack. The pad to lubricate pull up cords on non-Poptops, the silicone to top off the pad if its dry, the Needles to make a new closing loop, and the cord for a new loop (I put a new one on every time).Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #25 January 10, 2005 If you can, get with a rigger and get some ideas from him/her. I'll bet, he'll be more than happy to help. See which tools he/she has. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
