webracer 0 #51 January 15, 2005 I am a little upset regarding handling of this SB. It has been issued without notice to dealers, owners, or riggers. I just packed a Mirage, and now I have to open it up for the mod. I am not a Master Rigger, so that means I will have to re-inspect and repack it after someone else handles it. Thanks for the extra work Mirage! I feel the mod is entirely unnecessary. If the rig is packed concientiously and properly, I don't see the issue. I will probably send my two personal G4s (both new 4/04) back to Mirage for the mod. Luckily I plan to go to FL in the next couple weeks and I'll just drop them off when I'm finished jumping. My CL length for my MX rigs with 113R reserves is 3.75". It is tight and at pull force of 20lbs. Can't get the rig much tighter.Troy I am now free to exercise my downward mobility. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Turbovolv 0 #52 January 16, 2005 "This was prompted by an incident overseas in which 2 Mirage containers failed to immediately deploy their reserves on the same jump after Cypres activations. Both jumpers deployed their mains and landed safely without further incident." Does anyone know more details of this incident? Was this an emergency exit? Did both jumpers go low? Were they already deploying their mains when the cypres fired? I don't get it. -Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #53 January 16, 2005 QuoteWas this an emergency exit? Did both jumpers go low? Were they already deploying their mains when the cypres fired? I don't get it. No, yes, yes, and do you now?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #54 January 17, 2005 QuoteI spoke with the folks at Mirage yesterday, and was told that the system retro has to be done at the factory. The bulletin stated otherwise. At the PIA Symposium: I've spoken with Jeff and Justin. Justin still plans to make a clarifying post, but has been really busy here. However, the official Mirage position is that any Master Rigger or foreign equivalent, suitably equipped, can do the mod -- which is exactly what the PSB says. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ukJump 0 #55 January 17, 2005 Anyone know of anyone in SE UK at the moment who can do this mod. My usual rigger is away for a month or so and I am already over 120 days since reserve pack job! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aeromobile 0 #56 January 19, 2005 Even though Mirage says that the Bulletin is mandatory and must be done, the FAA are the only ones that can force you to comply with the service bulletin. If they feel it is necessary, they will release an airworthiness directive, and all the riggers will receive notification. The problem is some riggers don't understand this and will require that you comply or they will not pack your reserve. I'm an A&P/IA and its the same with aircraft. The manufactures release mandatory bulletins to attempt to relieve liability, but its up to the owners to decide if they want to comply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #57 January 19, 2005 >The problem is some riggers don't understand this and will require >that you comply or they will not pack your reserve. I believe most riggers understand this and STILL require you to comply with service bulletins. It is their ticket on the line, and if they do not require you to have the SB done, and you go in, they are the ones who have to deal with the lawsuits. "So, Mr. Rigger, is it true that on March 10th of this year, you did not implement a manufacturer-mandated repair to my client's rig, the lack of which led to his death?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aeromobile 0 #58 January 19, 2005 So then your rig that you jump with has to have all the SB complied with, but the aircraft you jump out of does not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #59 January 19, 2005 > So then your rig that you jump with has to have all the SB complied >with, but the aircraft you jump out of does not? Neither one has to have all its SB's complied with 100% of the time (depending on the SB and what it affects.) BUT your rigger may refuse to pack your reserve unless you have a given SB, just as an A+P may do the same thing. It is their call. The obvious solution to this problem is to do your own rigging and make your own calls on such matters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #61 January 20, 2005 Quotethe FAA are the only ones that can force you to comply with the service bulletin. DZ's can do the same if they choose. QuoteThe problem is some riggers don't understand this and will require that you comply or they will not pack your reserve. And that's their right. After all if you go in because you didn't perfoma an SB, the rigger will be investigated.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #62 January 20, 2005 QuoteAlso, I have'nt seen it mentioned yet but what is the fee that everyone is charging for this? Just an update on this: We (Chutingstar/Mirage) are doing the mod for free along with free return FedEx Express Saver shipping. The only thing you have to pay for is shipping to Chutingstar in Atlanta and any extra rigging work you want done (inspections/repacks, other maintenance, etc.). And you don't have to get any extra rigging work if you don't want it. In other words, if you would rather your local rigger inspect/repack it after the mod, that is fine. Or we can complete that for you here in the loft. See our web site www.chutingstar.com for our mailing address. Send it to Chutingstar, Attn: Mirage PSB 12-04. Please include all of your contact info in case we have any issues with your rig. Turnaround time is two business days...that is, it will be shipped out to you two days after we receive the rig. If you have any questions, you can contact me at 1-800-877-7199. MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aeromobile 0 #63 January 20, 2005 QuoteQuotethe FAA are the only ones that can force you to comply with the service bulletin. DZ's can do the same if they choose. Having the right and choosing are different than having the FAA require you to do something. You can always find another rigger or dropzone that won't require you to comply with the SB. If the FAA says so you have to do it or not jump your rig. QuoteThe problem is some riggers don't understand this and will require that you comply or they will not pack your reserve. And that's their right. After all if you go in because you didn't perfoma an SB, the rigger will be investigated. What is the difference between a rigger signing off your rig without a SB complied with and a A&P signing off your jump plane without a SB complied with? I can assure you that your drop zone aircraft doesn't have all the SB complied with. But it will hold 20 skydivers with rigs that have all the SB complied with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #64 January 20, 2005 QuoteWhat is the difference between a rigger signing off your rig without a SB complied with and a A&P signing off your jump plane without a SB complied with? No difference. I do think that 1) If the rigger doesn't want to pack a rig that has a SB that applies to it, that is their option and 2) If there is an SB due the rigger should notify the owner that they either have the option of getting it done or the rigger won't pack it w/o the SB. I used to believe that SB's were mandatory. Derek Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #65 January 21, 2005 This silly legal argument is a waste of time. The FAA stopped issuing Aorworthiness Directives affecting parachutes several years ago. The FAA still insists that parachutes be "maintained in accordance with manufadturers' instructions," so any time you ignore a Service Bulletin, you are ignoring an FAR .. not a healthy attitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #66 January 21, 2005 QuoteI am a little upset regarding handling of this SB. It has been issued without notice to dealers, owners, or riggers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Riggers were always supposed to be curious. Now that the internet has changed the way we do business, the fastest way to get updates, Service Bulletins, etc. is to visit the Australian Parachute Federation's master list of SBs, etc. then follow the link to the manufacturer's websites. If your rigger is not curious - and not updating his knowledge on a regular basis - fire him! If I waited for Transport Canada to inform me of this SB, it would take 2 years! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #67 January 21, 2005 FAA just issued an AD on the Sunpath issue in November: http://www.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/av-info/ad/saibs/CE-05-14.pdfYesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #68 January 21, 2005 Quotemaintained in accordance with manufadturers' instructions," That is for AAD's, if installed. I'll look up part 65 when I get home, but it has different wording. The FAR means that when you peform maintenance, youhave to follow the manufacture's instruction for that maint. Like when you replace a propeller on a 172, you have to do it I/A/W the manufacturer's instructions. You can't ust torque the bolts to 5 in lbs and call it good. The FAR doesn't say that you have to do SB's. Here is the FAR: §65.129 Performance standards. No certificated parachute rigger may -- (a) Pack, maintain, or alter any parachute unless he is rated for that type; (b) Pack a parachute that is not safe for emergency use; (c) Pack a parachute that has not been thoroughly dried and aired; (d) Alter a parachute in a manner that is not specifically authorized by the Administrator or the manufacturer; (e) Pack, maintain, or alter a parachute in any manner that deviates from procedures approved by the Administrator or the manufacturer of the parachute; or So if the manufacturer says you have to use "E" thread to patch a canopy, then you have to use "E" thread to patch the canopy. SB's are not maintenance and are not mandatory. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #69 January 21, 2005 QuoteFAA just issued an AD on the Sunpath issue in November: That isn't an Airworthiness Directive, it is a Special Airworthiness Advisory Bulletin and isn't mandatory. They send out one for the Capewell ripcords too and it specifically states the inspection is only recommended. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ncrowe 0 #70 January 24, 2005 My friend just talked to mirage, he offered to drop it off at Mirage in Deland. They told him it'd be 2 weeks to get it back in hands. His other option would be to send it to chutingstar and have to pay shipping to get the rig there. His usual rigger is not a master rigger so he cant do the mod, pretty piss poor if you ask me. ...Seems like if you paid that kind of money for a container and offered to drop it off at their main place of business they take care of their customers a tad better than this. "Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jlmiracle 7 #71 January 24, 2005 Quote My friend just talked to mirage, he offered to drop it off at Mirage in Deland. They told him it'd be 2 weeks to get it back in hands. His other option would be to send it to chutingstar and have to pay shipping to get the rig there. His usual rigger is not a master rigger so he cant do the mod, pretty piss poor if you ask me. ...Seems like if you paid that kind of money for a container and offered to drop it off at their main place of business they take care of their customers a tad better than this. A tad better than what? He can drop off his rig at the manufacturer and they will do the mod and ship it back to him. Do you expect them (Mirage) to drop everything they are doing to everyone else's rig who has paid that kind of money also and do the mod immediately on your friends rig? If I had rig there getting worked on and then because someone showed up at their front door because they are in Florida and my stuff got put on hold, THEN I would be pissed. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites deadwood 0 #72 January 28, 2005 Hats off to you guy for doing it for free. I just finished my first one and it took 1.5 hrs. I'm sure I'll get quicker but it does take some time to do a nice job.He who hesitates shall inherit the earth. Deadwood Skydive New Mexico Motorcycle Club, Touring Division Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #73 January 28, 2005 QuoteSeems like if you paid that kind of money for a container and offered to drop it off at their main place of business they take care of their customers a tad better than this. Let me point you in the direction of "Slack Valley". I hear they don't mind whining over there.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ncrowe 0 #74 January 30, 2005 ahh very clever but no, actually I don't jump a mirage and they did man up in and take care of it quicker than the 2 weeks they quoted so i'll delete that last message. "Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #75 February 11, 2005 QuoteHats off to you guy for doing it for free. I just finished my first one and it took 1.5 hrs. I'm sure I'll get quicker but it does take some time to do a nice job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Agreed! The first time Mirage update took me 90 minutes. The second took me 30 minutes. All the Mirages coming through my loft in 2005 will get the update for $30. Time spent debating ADs, SBs, SAIBs, etc. will be billed at $45 per hour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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PhreeZone 20 #67 January 21, 2005 FAA just issued an AD on the Sunpath issue in November: http://www.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/av-info/ad/saibs/CE-05-14.pdfYesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #68 January 21, 2005 Quotemaintained in accordance with manufadturers' instructions," That is for AAD's, if installed. I'll look up part 65 when I get home, but it has different wording. The FAR means that when you peform maintenance, youhave to follow the manufacture's instruction for that maint. Like when you replace a propeller on a 172, you have to do it I/A/W the manufacturer's instructions. You can't ust torque the bolts to 5 in lbs and call it good. The FAR doesn't say that you have to do SB's. Here is the FAR: §65.129 Performance standards. No certificated parachute rigger may -- (a) Pack, maintain, or alter any parachute unless he is rated for that type; (b) Pack a parachute that is not safe for emergency use; (c) Pack a parachute that has not been thoroughly dried and aired; (d) Alter a parachute in a manner that is not specifically authorized by the Administrator or the manufacturer; (e) Pack, maintain, or alter a parachute in any manner that deviates from procedures approved by the Administrator or the manufacturer of the parachute; or So if the manufacturer says you have to use "E" thread to patch a canopy, then you have to use "E" thread to patch the canopy. SB's are not maintenance and are not mandatory. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #69 January 21, 2005 QuoteFAA just issued an AD on the Sunpath issue in November: That isn't an Airworthiness Directive, it is a Special Airworthiness Advisory Bulletin and isn't mandatory. They send out one for the Capewell ripcords too and it specifically states the inspection is only recommended. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ncrowe 0 #70 January 24, 2005 My friend just talked to mirage, he offered to drop it off at Mirage in Deland. They told him it'd be 2 weeks to get it back in hands. His other option would be to send it to chutingstar and have to pay shipping to get the rig there. His usual rigger is not a master rigger so he cant do the mod, pretty piss poor if you ask me. ...Seems like if you paid that kind of money for a container and offered to drop it off at their main place of business they take care of their customers a tad better than this. "Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #71 January 24, 2005 Quote My friend just talked to mirage, he offered to drop it off at Mirage in Deland. They told him it'd be 2 weeks to get it back in hands. His other option would be to send it to chutingstar and have to pay shipping to get the rig there. His usual rigger is not a master rigger so he cant do the mod, pretty piss poor if you ask me. ...Seems like if you paid that kind of money for a container and offered to drop it off at their main place of business they take care of their customers a tad better than this. A tad better than what? He can drop off his rig at the manufacturer and they will do the mod and ship it back to him. Do you expect them (Mirage) to drop everything they are doing to everyone else's rig who has paid that kind of money also and do the mod immediately on your friends rig? If I had rig there getting worked on and then because someone showed up at their front door because they are in Florida and my stuff got put on hold, THEN I would be pissed. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deadwood 0 #72 January 28, 2005 Hats off to you guy for doing it for free. I just finished my first one and it took 1.5 hrs. I'm sure I'll get quicker but it does take some time to do a nice job.He who hesitates shall inherit the earth. Deadwood Skydive New Mexico Motorcycle Club, Touring Division Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #73 January 28, 2005 QuoteSeems like if you paid that kind of money for a container and offered to drop it off at their main place of business they take care of their customers a tad better than this. Let me point you in the direction of "Slack Valley". I hear they don't mind whining over there.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ncrowe 0 #74 January 30, 2005 ahh very clever but no, actually I don't jump a mirage and they did man up in and take care of it quicker than the 2 weeks they quoted so i'll delete that last message. "Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #75 February 11, 2005 QuoteHats off to you guy for doing it for free. I just finished my first one and it took 1.5 hrs. I'm sure I'll get quicker but it does take some time to do a nice job. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Agreed! The first time Mirage update took me 90 minutes. The second took me 30 minutes. All the Mirages coming through my loft in 2005 will get the update for $30. Time spent debating ADs, SBs, SAIBs, etc. will be billed at $45 per hour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
