Ripcord Main Deployment

[mr2mk1g 10]

And because they're not "cool". I mean... Pro-tec's are perfect for most jumpers... they're just not "cool".

[AggieDave 6]

Was I stable? HA! I had 10 jumps...

The PC (the spring was probably shot...most of their gear was...BAD) hit me in the back of the head and stayed in my burble. I reached back over my right shoulder (like a tricept stretch) and found the top of the PC. So I grabbed and tossed off to the right.


Believe what you want, imply what you want, but that's the straight truth.

As stated by people who have been sucked in and bounced off my back during RW jumps...I have a "black hole" of a burble, large and deadly.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billbooth 10]

Hold it guys. We already settled this issue...25 YEARS AGO. Hand deployed pilot chutes won. Live with it.

[JohnRich 4]

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Can’t have a kill line PC...

Granted. I jump a big canopy and don't care about the nominal extra drag from an inflated pilot chute. Personally, I don't think there is much. My D-bag tend to turn itself inside out, folding back over the base of the pilot chute, thereby deflecting any wind from getting inside the pilot chute.

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Can lose the rip cord

Granted. I keep a spare in my gear bag. I manage to lose one about every two years (400-500 jumps). That's usually from dropping it on the ground somewhere after landing. Replacement cost: $35.

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It can get in the way if you have to cutaway (might have to toss it)

During a malfunction, saving handles isn't a priority, and it's already an expensive proposition. But personally, I only threw handles away on my first malfunction, and have saved them every time since (9 cutaways total).

I just drape the handle back over my fingers so it dangles on the back of my hand, and it is completely out of the way for gripping additional handles, toggles, or whatever.

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If the coating on the cable some off (if it is a coated cable rip cord, it will create a main total mal.

Steel cable - no coating.

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Depending on the location, it may or may not be reachable with either hand.

Order it so that it is.

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The rip cord handle can present a snag hazard.

True. But in 4,500 jumps I've never had a premature opening from a snagged ripcord. This problem is also true with throw-outs and bridles - I've seen a number of people with premature openings due to a snagged pilot chute handle or bridle. So I would call this one a draw.

I have had several instances where the ripcord handle came out of the pocket and dangled loose. It usually blows back under my armpit. But because of the location, I just have to follow the cable down to the handle, and it's only minor excitement. But this can happen with the bottom-of-container pud on a pull-out pilot chute too - except in that case, you can't see where the pud is to grip it, and you are more likely to have to resort to the reserve.

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Because it is launched into the jumper’s burble, it can hesitate unless the burble is cleared by dropping a shoulder, which can cause line twists.

Very rare, and even then, any hesitation is brief. Body position takes care of this - I use my wave-off to sit up a bit head high, which keeps air flowing over my back. Dipping a shoulder with a twist isn't necessary. I don't open so low that a rare one-second hesitation is going to make a difference. I've also seen weak throws on a throw-out cause the pilot chute to go into the burble and hesitate.

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Spring loaded PC’s are heavier than throw out PC’s.

A couple of ounces. Big deal.

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Spring loaded PC’s aren’t good for CReW.

Granted. Downright dangerous, probably.

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If the end of the cable is very smooth, it can damage the closing loop or hang up.

I think you meant "isn't smooth". I use a steel cable with a swaged pin on the end - not the coated cable.

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In the pic, it looks your excess reserve ripcord cable is tucked into the velcro sandwhich with the reserve handle. I have seen this cause a premature reserve deployment because when the jumper did a front loop and flexed the harness, there wasn't any excess cable, so the pin was pulled.

Yes, it is tucked in. But it's not held tightly enough, relative to the pull force of the pins, to cause that problem. I do loops all the time, and have never experienced this. But thanks for the warning.

[JohnRich 4]

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Hey! While we are at it, whats wrong with good ol capewells?

Because the 3-ring is superior to capewells.

I don't see that clear of a distinction between ripcords and throw-outs.

Besides, if ripcords are so bad, why does everyone have one for their reserve, when their life is on the line in an emergency?

[JohnRich 4]

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Happy to say that I've never had to use a ripcord

If you've never used one, then I wonder what your means of comparison is for saying that you're "happy"?

[JohnRich 4]

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Somewhat of a contradiction, I think, for a big guy to go to the trouble of using ripcord, because they think some aspects of it are safer, and then to have mini 3 rings also part of such an obviously custom rig.

The mini-rings are on the large risers, using teflon cutaway cables, and the risers are on a large parachute (260 sq. ft.) Thus, the odds of me having a hard pull from a fast spin or wound-up risers is slim, compared to many jumpers today.

[JohnRich 4]

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Hell, I was just happy to see John buy a new container. His old was, although very very well maintained and cared for, could have been my older brother in years.

Not unless you're still in 5th grade. That last rig was "only" 10 years old, with about 2,500 jumps on it, when I retired it. That may be considered "old" by some, but it's certainly not ancient.

[JohnRich 4]

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The contradiction comes when he pontificates about the "saftey" of using a spring loaded main pilot cute. If he wants to be safe he would also use large rings.

I would not consider mini-rings to be "unsafe", especially with my configuration (as mentioned earlier). If that were the case, then the large majority of sport jumpers are using unsafe gear.

And I disagree with your characterization of my post as "pontificating". I'm just stating an opinion for purposes of discussion, to make people think, and to learn from the responses. Nowhere am I suggesting that everyone else is wrong, nor do I think I am being arrogant in my voicing my thoughts.

[JohnRich 4]

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Anyone had the one where the weight of the spring in the PC causes it to fall in front of the of the canopy after deployment, where it inflates and loops back through the lines causing the canopy to bowtie.

It's not necessarily the weight of the spring in the pilot chute that does that - it is usually the way the canopy opens with some rocking motion in it. I've also seen this happen with throw-out pilot chutes, where they drape over the nose, hang underneath, inflate, and pinch off a bit of the nose on one cell. I've never seen this cause a handling problem.

The spring does lend itself to snagging a line and staying more securely attached in this situation. The few times it has happened to me, I think most of the time I've been able to stall the canopy at altitude, and let the canopy rock back, so that the pilot chute floats out from in front and returns to it's normal position on top and in-trail.

[JohnRich 4]

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if it is mounted on the front, it is easier for another jumper to accidently grab and deploy your maun while free flying. I've heard of jumpers accidentally pulling someone's cutaway or reserve handle like that.

Granted - the freeflyers mess around more with the front of each other's gear.

I'm an RW guy, so people are usually not messing with my rig in that area, but instead are on arm or leg jumpsuit grippers. The exception is for launched exits, where when someone outside beside me wants to grab the main lift web; I tell them in the dirt dive to take the lateral strap, or a leg strap instead. That keeps their hands away from the ripcord handle.

[JohnRich 4]

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packing is much more of a pain with a springloaded PC

Yes, but that's minor. There's a technique for keeping the pilot chute compressed while you get the first two flaps closed, and once you learn it, it's no big deal. Not much different than getting hundreds of square feet of air-sucking canopy fabric stuffed into a tiny deployment bag.

[JohnRich 4]

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Hold it guys. We already settled this issue...25 YEARS AGO. Hand deployed pilot chutes won. Live with it.

Story time! It was the transition period to hand-deploy pilot chutes that made me stay with the ripcord. (I know this is nothing new to you, Bill, but this is for the newer jumpers.) Back then, hand-deploy pilot chutes were first mounted on a "belly band", sort of like wearing a belt on your trousars. The bridle ran around from the pilot chute pouch on your belly, to the back of your rig. The problem was, many jumpers would put a twist into that belly band as they threaded it, thereby also twisting the bridle around underneath the belly-band. Thus, when they threw out the pilot chute, it was trapped by the twist, and you had a pilot chute in-tow situation. I saw the rash of such incidents happening with that system, and read of several fatalities, and didn't want any part of it. So I stuck with a ripcord. By the time I had worn that rig out, I was so used to the ripcord, and it worked so well, there wasn't any reason for me to change.

I'm not suggesting that everyone should go back to ripcords. I'm just providing food for thought.

And we do, almost exclusively, still use ripcords for reserve deployments. So there must be something mighty trustworthy about them...

[Treejumps 0]

Hi John,

I'm just not sure why you are stumping for ripcords. I don't see or hear anyone complaining about the deployment options available today. Other than you and maybe 3 other sport jumpers, only students use ripcords. I don't think they are unsafe, but there were enough positives about throw out that ripcords are definitely relegated to students and the "don't like no change" crowd. Not to mention that throw out was one of the biggest steps forward in jumping, and as I recall it won Mr. Booth an award.

For an old timer set in his way, jumping a huge , slow canopy, and otherwise jumping as if it was 1975, a ripcord is fine. For anyone jumping even a marginally small canopy (under 200') a non-collapsable PC is a huge loss of performance. I see that you have decided that PC drag is not an issue, but for modern jumpers, it is proven that a collapsable is better. Even on a 200' canopy, a collapsable PC & slider as well as a loosened chest strap after openng will give "noticable" performance gains in many parameters.

By all means, jump whatever makes you comfortable, thats your choice. However, trying to stump for outdated technology for who knows what reason just does not make any sense to me. Are you on capewells payroll or something?

Note: Old timer is a term of endearment in skydiving. If you gain this title you are doing great in the sport.

[poppenhager 1]

Hi John, I agree with you but the younger generation never had the opertunity to learn how to use a ripcord without having hesitations and most would probably lose the thing anyway and that gets expensive!!!!
Pop D47

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[billvon 3,072]

>Until someone makes one, you can't have one.

We'll see about that!

>but for the avarage jumper, throw out is the way to go.

I agree in general, although I can see some instances where it would be much nicer to have a ripcord - birdman jumps, for example.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Sounds like Amy has a new rigging project.......

Derek

[DBCOOPER 5]

I agree in general, although I can see some instances where it would be much nicer to have a ripcord - birdman jumps, for example.

Yea,one that had a spring so strong it would deploy your main at 0 .

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[Ron 10]

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Hold it guys. We already settled this issue...25 YEARS AGO. Hand deployed pilot chutes won. Live with it.

Sometimes ya gotta love this guy. Does not speak much, but when he does.....

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[ScottMcC 0]

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4) You can operate the ripcord with either hand. With a throw-out or pull-out system, if your right arm is disabled for some reason, you can't reach it with your left hand. Or if you do manage to contort your body so that you can reach it, it's going to cause a barrel roll and unstable body position during deployment. Thus, you have no choice but to pull your reserve. With a ripcord, even with one arm disabled, you can still activate your main canopy with the other hand, and also still have a reserve ready in case of a malfunction.

This is not true. I dislocated my right shoulder in freefall, and was able to reach my BOC with my left hand, while maintaining a stable body position. I then reduced the dislocation and landed uneventfully.

This actually happened to me twice, and I have video of it both times, although not uploaded to computer--for some reason I don't like watching those videos too much.

By the way, I jump a Wings with a Vengeance 107.

[riggerrob 643]

"Packing Kathy" reports - via Bill Booth - that BOC has the lowest malfunction rate.

As for students using ripcords ... I still have the scars from an unstable opening caused by a hard ripcord pull (in 1979).
The 3-way (main ripcord, left side ripcord and FXC) Telesis main container that Rigging Innovations built for retired President George Bush was by far the worst rigger's nightmare I ever packed. If you were very careful about loop length, it worked fine, but any deviation caused hesitations. Sandy Reid said that was the last 3-way container RI would ever build.
My last job for the Perris Valley Skydiving School was to convert all their Telesis from main ripcord to BOC.

[skydiverek 63]

I heard that jumpres switched from spring loaded to throw-outs because of large number of PC hesitations on BAGGY suites (70's and early 80's). After that, baggy suites disappeared (and the need for throw-outs), but jumpers stayed with throw-outs since they alrady had them.

[JohnRich 4]

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I heard that jumpres switched from spring loaded to throw-outs because of large number of PC hesitations on BAGGY suites (70's and early 80's). After that, baggy suites disappeared (and the need for throw-outs), but jumpers stayed with throw-outs since they alrady had them.

It's true that hesitations were more frequent back then on big suits throwing a large burble. But now, with our faster fall rates, that problem is rare.

[Jskydiver22 0]

I think that the skydiving world evolves for a reason. We went from rounds to squares for a reason. If the spring loaded pilot chutes were still superior to the throw outs, how come it is rare for an experienced jumper to have a spring loaded PC?

For what most people do today...my opinion is that hand deployed PC's are better. But thats only my opinion

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[billvon 3,072]

>how come it is rare for an experienced jumper to have a spring loaded PC?

I'll bet you $100 you have a spring loaded PC in your rig!

Keep in mind that safety/reliability is not always the driving force in gear design. If it was, we wouldn't have sub-110 sq ft reserves and sub-70 foot mains. Throwouts have some benefits beyond safety (ease of packing, rig size etc) thus they've been favored. Spring loaded PC"s are very reliable under a wide range of conditions, thus their use in reserves,