I am comfortable exiting at... (non-emergency)

[SansSuit 1]

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FYI, pulling at 4000 feet in freefall gives you about as much time as if you exit from 3200 or so and pull immediately.

Could you please elaborate?

Peace,
-Dawson.
http://www.SansSuit.com
The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving

[TiaDanger 0]

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FYI, pulling at 4000 feet in freefall gives you about as much time as if you exit from 3200 or so and pull immediately.

Could you please elaborate?

+1 ...I would think it would be the opposite?...that snatch force at terminal velocity at 4000 would be much more abrupt resulting in a faster canopy extraction than a subterminal deployment at 3200.

It's also interesting to hear so many people comfortable exiting at 1500 or 2000. For those who this applies to, are you ever worried about having such little altitude to deal with a nasty mal?

If I had to bail at 2000 bc of an A/C emergency I would. But I wouldn't get on a 2000 ft hop n POP load

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[billvon 3,070]

>Could you please elaborate?

The lower vertical speed means you don't lose as much altitude for the first 10 seconds or so. In addition, the horizontal speed of the aircraft gives you relative wind to open your parachute with, so you're not at zero airspeed as you would be on, say, a balloon exit.

[billvon 3,070]

>that snatch force at terminal velocity at 4000 would be much more
>abrupt resulting in a faster canopy extraction than a subterminal
>deployment at 3200.

The canopy is indeed extracted faster - but then it has to slow you down from 120mph vertical speed instead of almost zero vertical speed. That takes a lot longer.

I've jumped BASE-specific gear from King Airs and been open in about 20 feet, whereas even a reserve opening at terminal will take ~200 feet. And while you could pack a rig to open in 20 feet (just remove the slider) the experience might not be survivable.

>It's also interesting to hear so many people comfortable exiting at 1500
>or 2000. For those who this applies to, are you ever worried about having
>such little altitude to deal with a nasty mal?

Not if you have the right gear. And in a way you gain some altitude back - there's no error in looking at your altimeter and then reacting 200 feet later, and no question as to when you are going to pull.

Of course, when I started, 3000 feet was the "safe" altitude and 12,500 was the "dangerous" altitude. You had all that time to get into a spin!

[TiaDanger 0]

Ok, that makes sense now. I forgot about the differences in deployment speeds and the effort it takes to slow down.

Ok..say you exit at 2000 and are open under a malfunction at say, 1500 ft. You recognize immediately you need to chop and pull reserve which takes say, 3 seconds. You do not have an RSL or Skyhook. You are under a reserve at say, 900 or 1000ft. I'm not taking any reserve pc or canopy hesitation into consideration, which would put you even lower. Do my arbitrary altitudes seem reasonable for an imaginary situation? It seems that 1000 ft may be fine in an ideal situation, but what if there are hang ups along the way? I admit, I'm a turbine baby, and it seems the risk of a mal at a low altitude is not worth it.

I also sometimes forget that some people normally pull at 2000ft regardless of exit altitude. I'm still pulling at 3500 ft, so anything lower than 2500 seems ominous

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[Hellis 0]

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Ok..say you exit at 2000 and are open under a malfunction at say, 1500 ft.

As Bill said earlier, you dont have any vertical speed. So why would it take 500 feet (vertical) to open the canopy?
You are correct in the way that you will travel a distance while the canopy is opening, but thats mostly horisontal distance.
The vertical distance will probably not be more than 60ish feet unless you give it some freefall.

[kimemerson 7]

ok, you lost me.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Depends on what gear I use.

[TiaDanger 0]

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The vertical distance will probably not be more than 60ish feet unless you give it some freefall.

Alright that makes sense, but the fact is that you are still low and now having to deal with a malfunction.

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[voilsb 1]

I was a turbine baby, and for a while I had more jumps under 3000 feet than I had jumps from a Cessna. I have no problem jumping from 2000 ft. My main opens in 200-300 ft from a 2 sec delay, and about 800 ft at terminal. If I have a problem under 1800 ft, I don't even bother to try and deal with it. I chop straight away (only had to once, though).

Brian

[Andy9o8 2]

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The vertical distance will probably not be more than 60ish feet unless you give it some freefall.

Alright that makes sense, but the fact is that you are still low and now having to deal with a malfunction.

I thought you were TiaDanger. My image of you is crushed.

[TiaDanger 0]

You're totally right. I emailed the mods and asked them to change my username to 'TiaSafeMode'
Ha!

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[billvon 3,070]

>Ok..say you exit at 2000 and are open under a malfunction at say, 1500 ft.

Right. That would be similar to pulling at 2800 feet and being open under a malfunction at 1500 feet.

>You are under a reserve at say, 900 or 1000ft.

OK. That's a long time to screw around with a malfunction, but OK.

>It seems that 1000 ft may be fine in an ideal situation, but what if
>there are hang ups along the way?

It sounds like you've already added hangups - why else would you not even recognize a mal until 1500 feet?

Don't get me wrong; there's nothing wrong with pulling high provided the rest of the load is aware of it/plans for it. But you do "get a lot back" when you exit from an airplane flying at a low altitude - which is why deciding to pull at 2800 feet is pretty similar, in terms of time to deal with problems, as a H+P at 2000.

>I'm still pulling at 3500 ft, so anything lower than 2500 seems ominous

Yep. And I was just the opposite when I started. At 2500 feet you can see where you're going, it's easy to spot, you can read the windsocks etc. At 12,500 - it gets much harder! What if the uppers are howling and you didn't notice? What if you can't see the windsock? What if you lose track of altitude completely?

My first jumps from 12,500 were as scary to me as it sounds like low jumps are for you.

[TiaDanger 0]

I don't know. I guess I'm just primed from reading about so many incidents and fatalities that could have been reduced from having a little more altitude.

I haven't had a cutaway yet, so I don't yet feel comfortable in exiting or pulling low unless I have to. For petes sake, some guy good enough to do bigways in Arizona a couple weeks ago fought his 3 rings thinking it was his reserve handle until he had a Cypres fire. I referenced this incident to demonstrate that not every cutaway and reserve pull is clean and fast. And I don't know how many times I've read about fatalities due to a reserve that didn't have enough time to open.

Granted, incidents like this can happen even if people pull higher, but they are more likely to happen if you do not give yourself a workable amount of altitude.

Give me 500 more clean, consistent openings. I'll probably change my mind

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[Ron 10]

Id bet the answers would be different in real life than on your poll.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[DARK 0]

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Id bet the answers would be different in real life than on your poll.

id tend to agree

having worked on a dropzone for 3 seasons i would say far far less sub 1000 jump jumpers would voluntarily get on a load knowing it was only going to 2K

sure from what iv seen most of them never ever do 'hop + pops' from 7K 5,500 or 3,500 not to mind 2K

[shropshire 0]

Again... it depends... Us 'old' codgers from the Dope-on-a- rope days were used to jumping from 2500 and I still don't mind.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[stratostar 5]

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PPS - limited to 2k based on USPA BSR's.

But for D's it's pack open by 2K not exit @ 2K.... And with the approval of the S&TA, one could get out @ 2K. I'm cool with 1400ft exits, airspeed is your friend.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[DSE 5]

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PPS - limited to 2k based on USPA BSR's.

But for D's it's pack open by 2K not exit @ 2K.... And with the approval of the S&TA, one could get out @ 2K.

Remember when Jay did his 600 jump event? He went to 2.1 on each jump just to be sure he was USPA compliant for pack opening.

[fcajump 164]

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PPS - limited to 2k based on USPA BSR's.

But for D's it's pack open by 2K not exit @ 2K.... And with the approval of the S&TA, one could get out @ 2K.

Remember when Jay did his 600 jump event? He went to 2.1 on each jump just to be sure he was USPA compliant for pack opening.

This is where I expect the Pull-Out'ers to speak up

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[Hellis 0]

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Id bet the answers would be different in real life than on your poll.

Not for me.

I know it was not the smartest move, and knowing what i know today i would not do it again with that canopy.
But with since the question is with your choice of rigs for the given conditions (i belive he means gear not rigs?), i would do it again but not with the gear i did this jump with.

I bet someone really smart is going to say, so what do you think you will say next time this question is asked?

[kuai43 7]

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One should also remember the limitations and behaviour of the gear they're using. (why I gave the freedom to choose any gear for the low pass)

JW

You could always use this guy's gear...

Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

[gkc1436 3]

1200' with a stilletto 120 (no cut)
but then again, i know someone thats comfortable at 700' with a batwing.....

[kimemerson 7]

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1200' with a stilletto 120 (no cut)
but then again, i know someone thats comfortable at 700' with a batwing.....

see the video I attached and didn't make into a clicky. I believe you will see the "someone' you know.
How the hell are you, stud?

[Andy_Copland 0]

I wont get out below 4k. I'm just not that cool.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.