B12? legstraps??

[JeffSkydiver 0]

Is that the right name for the "old" legstraps?

I returned to the sport in December after 23 years off.

I see that the legstraps are different. I assume there must have been a problem with the old ones - which IMO were much easier to put on.

Just for my info, please tell me what the problem was. I assume they opened and people died. I would like a little more detail - incidents etc.

When I jumped with them 23 years ago, and everyone else around me, I never saw a problem.

I have no intention to return to them.

Last week however, I went to a DZ I hadn't been to before. I rented a student rig. Had the old leg straps. I asked about them and the packer/rigger said they are still very common on student gear. It's ok to kill students? lol

Upon opening, I thought my helmet strap had somehow tightened itself. While under canopy I kept trying to fiddle with the helmet strap to stop it from cutting into my neck, right under my chin. Then I finally realized it was the chest strap!!

I only made one jump :)

Ok, so please give me the long story on the old leg straps.

jt

*

Let's all do this safe enough that we can still do this in our 90's.

[AggieDave 6]

The long story is people don't think they're fasionable and as I understand it some manufactures won't build b-12s on with articulated harnesses which are wildly popular, but basically as I understand it, its just not as "cool" to have B-12s.

Could be worst, my first rig (borrowed from the Aggie Skydiving Club for about a year) had quick-ejectors on the leg straps instead of B-12s. I always felt like that was dangerous personally.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ryoder 1,590]

Thread-through hardware replaced B-12's & Quick-Ejectors just because it is lighter weight and more comfortable. Safety had nothing to do with it.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[airtwardo 7]

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my first rig (borrowed from the Aggie Skydiving Club for about a year) had quick-ejectors on the leg straps instead of B-12s. I always felt like that was dangerous personally.

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,,,,And to go along with that some CHEEEEESE!



But really...

I'm an ole guy over 6'4" with some dings
here and there...for me B12's & QE snaps are
just plain EASIER to get on...and OFF as in water landing.

The few ounces you gain with them is that
much less lead in a weight vest!




This subject has been covered at length in various
other threads on this site...

...do a quick search for WAY to much info.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[IanHarrop 41]

I was out of the sport for 16 years and came back in 2003 but when I got new equipment last year I got B12s put on.

I like them!

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[wingnut 0]

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had quick-ejectors on the leg straps instead of B-12s. I always felt like that was dangerous personally.

my "mini-system" that has my paracomander in it has quick ejectors for the leg strap..... i feel fine using them.... just make sure they are "snaped" closed all the way....

______________________________________
"i have no reader's digest version"

[crazydiver 0]

I have actually read on DZ.com about some incidents that occured with the B-12 connectors. I cant find the thread, but it spoke about a hybrid that one of the hangers grabbed the legstrap and undid the connnector. THe jumper immediately noticed it and separated from the formation trying to fix it with no avail. The jumper deployed and couldn't get it re connected and spiraled all the way to the ground trying to counteract with opposite control input. THe jumper survived, but barely. I know this is probably a rare occurance, but I did want to throw in the safety aspect. They also need more careful maintnence. Wouldnt want one coming undone on me. THats for sure.

Cheers,
Travis

[darkwing 5]

There is nothing inherently unsafe or inferior to a B-12 snap. I think it is mostly a cosmetic issue. While I have a step-in harness, I have often wished for B-12s. One advantage of B-12s is you can tack the legstraps at the correct length.

Just to balance things out, there have been incidents with the current legstrap hardware also. Leg staps slipping, etc.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[adobelover 0]

Yes, that happened to my friend last year. I was there at the time. Her B12 came undone during a hybrid jump with two sit flyers and a hanger. Hanger reaches up and grabs all the way through the leg strap and B12, opening it up. There is then a change in relative altitude between the sitfflyer and hanger which causes the now open B12 to come away from the V-ring. The sitflyer immediately broke and unsuccessfully tried to grab the open leg strap. She ran out of altitude and finally pulled. She opened into an immediate spin because of the uneven weight distribution. By pulling on the opposite risers she was able to lessen the spin to the point that the was able to survive the impact. Thank goodness she only broke a rib or two and was very sore and bruised. It was VERY scary.

_________________________________________


Old age ain't no place for sissies!

[ChrisL 2]

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Is that the right name for the "old" legstraps?

I

Dont listen to the dumb hype.

I bought a brand new rig a year ago and I got B-12's
installed. They are cool, they are comfy, they are easy.

I like em

__

My mighty steed

[steve1 5]

I'm wondering about why the chest strap was hitting you under the chin. Did your leg straps loosen up after opening? Or were they too loose to begin with.

Even the new thread-thru leg straps are adjustable. If they are slipping something is wrong. Have a rigger check this out. If the leg strap material is worn too thin, they can slip, and this needs to be fixed.

I quit for 25 years and came back. (Welcome back!)

Personally, I always liked the old b-12 snaps and even the old quick ejectors. (Maybe the newer hardware is safer, depending on the situation.) Once you get used to the new thread thru type leg straps, you'll probably like them.

Have someone show you how to put your rig on. I usually let my rig slip down to my elbows, grab the side of a leg loop in my hand, and step through. Or you can set your rig on a bench and step through. I've even seen some people step through with their rig on their shoulders, and just grap a foot and pull it through there. I still haven't figured that one out. Maybe part of the problem is that I'm not very limber anymore....Steve1

[billvon 2,989]

B-12's - work fine as long as they're maintained well (i.e. spring is in good condition.)

Ejectors - I don't like them because I had one open on me as I was climbing out of a cessna. It was my fault, but it made me paranoid.

Both make a rig easier to get into and out of. They also make you more likely to twist a legstrap if you're not careful. Some people tack the tail of the legstrap and never adjust it; they just use the B-12. This can reduce wear on legstraps.

If I had a rig I was going to be landing in water a lot, I'd consider B-12's, but otherwise I like the simplicity and reliability of friction adapters (two or three less bits of hardware to fail.)

[craddock 0]

I think B-12's are great for young swoopers that are in over there head. When it's only a matter of time before they hammer in and need medical emergancy personal, the B-12's will provide easy access out of the rig before the trip in the chopper/ambulance. If they come back to jump again they may not have to have as much work done to repair the harness.

Josh

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[JohnRich 4]

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If I had a rig I was going to be landing in water a lot, I'd consider B-12's...

Another handy application: POPS Hit & Rock!

[JeffSkydiver 0]

I had the legstraps as tight as I could get them. The whole rig just didn't fit exactly right. The 3 ring releases were more on the top and going to the back of my shoulders than on the front. I was safe, just not in the same comfort zone. One jump: it was a great skydive, but one was enough.

I have no trouble getting into or out of the new legstraps; it's just different.

Back in the day, my Wonderhog with the Stratostar and Navy round reserve, I would flip the rig up over my head, onto my back and reach between my legs for the legstraps and hook them together.

I don't know what the quick ejectors were/are.

jt

*

Let's all do this safe enough that we can still do this in our 90's.

[174fps 1]

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I had the legstraps as tight as I could get them. The whole rig just didn't fit exactly right.

did the rig have adjustment on the main lift web?

generally when the chest strap comes up on opening it is because
the adjustment on the (side) webbing is wrong, has been left too long.

Andrew

[efs4ever 3]

Is that the right name for the "old" legstraps?

OLD???

I just got my Sigma Tandem rig re-harnessed. In the process I became the proud wearer of NEW shiny stainless steel B-12s!!!!

Yay!!

Russell M. Webb D 7014
Attorney at Law
713 385 5676
https://www.tdcparole.com

[70sdiver 0]

I too have just got back in to the sport and my javelin has nice b-12s

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[flyingferret 0]

All your safety questions have been answered by people much more qualified than myself, but I will chime in with the fashion issues. Most young jumpers just don't like them.

I am 25, and have a nice shiny wings rig with B-12s installed on an articulated harness. The first rig I bought used as a student had B-12s and I grew to like them. Easy to get in and out, especially in winter clothes. So, I ordered them on the new wings. For about 50 jumps I watched them like a hawk, being new gear and all.

That being said, I am the only young freeflyer type I have ever seen wearing B-12s.

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.