How much of a turn off is it?

[Amazon 7]

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I'm sure you can filter for this on the normal websites.

If it's really a deal-breaker for you, why not try dating slightly older women? They are more likely to be mature and know who they are and as an added bous also more likely to know what they are doing in the sack! Plus if they say they don't want children they are less likely to change their mind...

There has to be a sub size 8 out there somewhere that digs furries.. but does not wish to have a little fuzzy one herself.

[skygypsie 2]

Just date a 45-50yr olds and you wont have a problem with them wanting kids...

__________________________________________________

Not a bad idea...my most recent dating relationship was an excellent example !

Within a month after dating, he stated he wanted neither marriage, nor kids !

I've been married before & have 2 grown sons, plus grandkids !

He's only 2 months older then my oldest son, & 7 years older then my youngest !

We both like being able to pick up & go, without worries of pre-arrangements or stresses back home !

Everything was great for 4 years...
so much so, we were married 9 months ago

He's an excellent husband, 'dad' & grandpa; taking on the sole role, as my son's father died...

He loves, & is loved as if they were his own

[saligia 0]

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Just to add: Some women also may not want to fess up about not wanting to have children. I can't tell you the countless number of people who look at me like I have 2 heads when I say I don't want them and never have; like there is something wrong with a woman who doesn't want to bring another life into this world. I hear the ... "you'll change you're mind when you... get older/meet the right guy/etc."

Same here. I never wanted to get married, and I never wanted children. I receive the range of responses. Thought I had it made when I met someone who had been told by his doc that it was highly unlikely for him to ever have kids because of a childhood illness and b/c he didn't want kids to boot anyway. Surprise, surprise! It was an EXTREMELY difficult decision as to whether the shrimp was going to be kept. I love the kid to death. I would do anything for him, and I would likely kill anyone who harmed him. However, I still do not want kids. In the meantime, his father and I have been separated for several years for various reasons, including his decision that he wanted at least another child after all. He started pressuring with all the same crap that everyone else used to give me (e.g., you'll change your mind when you get older, when you have another, etc.). Hell, he once even told me that I could just pop another one out and he would take care of it. No problem! Guess he didn't listen the first umpteen million times I mentioned that I had no desire to bear children.

Since then, I reentered the dating game simply for "casual" fun (again, that whole I have no interest in marriage/children thing). I am a fairly direct, upfront individual, but the number of gents & ladies who ran off after professing to desire the same thing once the "no children" issue was raised in one manner or another was simply astonishing (which made no sense due to the circumstances of said relationships).

I dislike people who lie in general, so I'm going to reiterate all the posters above DO NOT LIE. Even if it's only a "half-truth/lie" or clever, witticism that serves to manipulate the individual to believe as she wishes. If she's not bright enough to figure it out, then do you really want to be with her anyway?

[shah269 0]

Yeah lots of very good information here.....sadly none of it positive. I knew the situation was not going to be a good one but now that I stand back and take the long view of things....it's not going to be fun. Much as with most cases in life, it is a numbers game and I'm on the wrong side of the odds curve. And as such thank you for the information and opinions.

And before anyone decided to launch into the pedantic autonomous babble regarding being single vs in a relationship;
Not all of us enjoy being single much like not all of us enjoy being unemployed. Some of us enjoy being in a relationship and some of us actually enjoy working.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[missbrz 0]

Hey Shah don't give up hope yet. I met a guy this weekend who is probably around your age. (I assume b/c he kept calling me young, but didn't look all that old.) He doesn't want kids & found a gal who doesnt want kids either. They're married & very happy now. Oh and he looks a wee bit like you & she's smokin' hot.

[shah269 0]

There should always be hope. Be it valid or false.

Lucky guy I wish them the best.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[-ftp- 0]

So what exactly do you want? A long-term relationship?

Your best bet is to find a foreign girl, sounds shallow but probably a good option for you.

Im not sure what your salary is, but you are RICH to some hot little spinner from who knows where. I know a few friends that have done this; one has a Japanese wife that caters to him, knows there not having kids and this guy is a 2 in the looks department.

Im not saying its right (who am I to judge?), but its the truth, they both knew the deal going in and they have been together for like 10 years.

Id say 95% of Amerrican women have the desire to have kids, of the 5% that dont, 95% of those are probably a real mess. Some will say they don't at first, then try to sway you. Some THINK they don't, but as they get older they realize they do. Its a combination of the instict of women to reproduce and society telling us it is thr right thing to do.

To all the women on here that now think Im a narcisistic pig, Im just keeping it real and this is the conclusion I have come to in life. For reference I'm married for 5 years, dated my wife for 8 years before the marriage, I'm 30. She now wants kids, although told me she didnt care either way when we got married. I know feelings change, I love her and don't want to be the one keeping her from getting what she desires, so I'm sure Ill be a dad in the near future.

[MX304 0]

I find that often times women who are highly educated, and career driven are the ones do not want kids. I work with a lot of women who hold a masters or PhD , and most of them do not have, nor want kids.

[skygypsie 2]

__________________________________________________

"He's only 2 months older THAN my oldest son, & 7
years older THAN my youngest..."
------------------------------------------------------
I stand corrected

I received a personal email today, advising & correcting me on my improper useage of 'then' & 'than'...

by copying & pasting this phrase from my thread post & forwarding to me:

"He's only 2 months older then my oldest son, & 7 years older then my youngest "

He stated others will think negatively of me for improper grammar useage

If that's my only action thwarting negative feelings towards me...

well then, please feel free to critique my grammar, anytime !

Though it's appreciated...

my school days are long over !

If I've slacked on any correct grammar useage,

it AIN'T the only thing that has slacked,

over the years

[shah269 0]

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So what exactly do you want? A long-term relationship?

Your best bet is to find a foreign girl, sounds shallow but probably a good option for you.

For me? Right now as always I've been a big fan of stability. My life has been very unstable and as such I have found that a stable relationship, be it midterm to long term, has always proven to provide me a level of peace and what I'm personally looking for.

As for the foreign wife thing....a friend of mine who works as an engineer in Florida, not a bad looking guy works out dresses well has his life together is well traveled and is well to do, just sent me an email last week titled "Dating was fun but Tim is off the market!" He went off and married Belarus Barbie.
Thought tempting, and seeing Ms. Barbie's photo..very tempting...not my cup of tea. My x wife was from Finland. We met while I worked there and married when I got a job in the US. Unless you are well to do, such as my friend is, marrying a foreigner is a rather expensive and time consuming option. And I'm not young, I'm not in the position to invest that level of energy to get someone integrated into our society. The cost isn't in the service or the legal fees, it's in the little things such as drivers license and so on...

The numbers and opinions posted in response to this thread have been interesting. I had a gut feeling I was ice skating uphill, but the resulting information confirmed it. It's a numbers game and due to geography and career choice I'm on the wrong side of the probability curve.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[david3 0]

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For me? Right now as always I've been a big fan of stability. My life has been very unstable and as such I have found that a stable relationship, be it midterm to long term, has always proven to provide me a level of peace and what I'm personally looking for.

As for the foreign wife thing....a friend of mine who works as an engineer in Florida, not a bad looking guy works out dresses well has his life together is well traveled and is well to do, just sent me an email last week titled "Dating was fun but Tim is off the market!" He went off and married Belarus Barbie.
Thought tempting, and seeing Ms. Barbie's photo..very tempting...not my cup of tea. My x wife was from Finland. We met while I worked there and married when I got a job in the US. Unless you are well to do, such as my friend is, marrying a foreigner is a rather expensive and time consuming option. And I'm not young, I'm not in the position to invest that level of energy to get someone integrated into our society. The cost isn't in the service or the legal fees, it's in the little things such as drivers license and so on...

The numbers and opinions posted in response to this thread have been interesting. I had a gut feeling I was ice skating uphill, but the resulting information confirmed it. It's a numbers game and due to geography and career choice I'm on the wrong side of the probability curve.

Shah you know I am always there for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opXCOUgjOOY

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I'd lay my head on the railroad tracks
And wait for the Double "E"
But the railroad don't run no more
Poor, poor pitiful me

Poor, poor pitiful me
Poor, poor pitiful me
These young girls won't let me be
Lord have mercy on me
Woe is me

Well, I met a girl in West Hollywood
I ain't naming names
She really worked me over good
She was just like Jesse James
She really worked me over good
She was a credit to her gender
She put me through some changes, Lord
Sort of like a Waring blender

Poor, poor pitiful me
Poor, poor pitiful me
These young girls won't let me be
Lord have mercy on me
Woe is me

Well, I met a girl at the Rainbow bar
She asked me if I'd beat her
She took me back to the Hyatt House
I don't want to talk about it

Poor, poor pitiful me
Poor, poor pitiful me
These young girls won't let me be
Lord have mercy on me
Woe is me

(Well, I met a girl from the Vieux Carre`
Down in Yokahama
She picked me up and she throwed me down
I said, "Please don't hurt me, Mama")

[Nightingale 0]

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How much of a turn off is it?

Now please without too much snarkeyness bitchyness or attitude.....which most likely won't happen.

How much of a turn off is it TO THE AVERAGE CHICK if a dude does not wish to have kids?

The reason I ask is that I do not enjoy lying but I find myself continually lying regarding this issue when I'm on dates with women my age. I'm 34 and was married for quite a bit of time thus girls tend to ask two questions 1) Any kids? 2) Do you wish to have any kids? These are sensible questions seeing how old I am and how long I was married.

The problem lies in question #2. I would rather place a tooth pick under my toe nail and kick a wall than to have kids. I don’t want them, not now not ever. But if I wish to see the girl again I've noticed I've had to lie or make up some convoluted story about "how I'm not sure..."

Now it could just be the finite data set I have dealt with and the given age bracket.

Thoughts?

Not wanting kids is a flat out 100% dealbreaker for me. I will not date men who do not want children, for a couple of reasons that varied at different points in my life, but basically came down to the following:


1. I do want to be a parent at some point. Whether I'm looking seriously or not at this point in time for a life partner, you never know what something will turn into. You could be looking for someone to hang out with and end up falling madly in love and want to be together forever, and if you disagree on something as fundamental as children, you're in for a lot of heartache.

2. I don't believe in abortion in my personal life (as I've said in speaker's corner, I do believe it should be legal, I just wouldn't choose it for myself). Therefore, while I am fanatical in my birth control regimen, 99% effective still means one woman in 100 or so gets pregnant, and I wouldn't have an abortion, and as I am in a situation where good family support would enable me to raise a child, I wouldn't give it up for adoption either. Therefore, if someone would rather kick toothpicks under their toenails than help raise a child they had a part in creating, they're not someone I want to be sleeping with.


I had someone tell me a convenient lie like what you've been telling the girls you've been dating, because he knew of my feelings on not dating men who wanted children, and he really wanted me to date him, but knew I wouldn't if he was honest about his feelings. Neither of us wanted something particularly serious at the time, so he didn't think it would be a big deal.

He finally told me... two years into a very serious relationship. You can imagine how well that conversation went. I didn't break things off right then, but I probably should have, as it'd saved us both a lot of heartache over the following few years. When you disagree on something so basic, you simply don't belong together.

[shah269 0]

Nightingale
Thank you for your post.
I wish people would stop seeing me as a heartless cold person just because I do not wish to have kids.
But what can you do right?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[rehmwa 2]

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99% effective still means one woman in 100 or so gets pregnant, and I wouldn't have an abortion,

wow, I always thought it just meant you do it 99 times and then break up

it's great how I learn things here all the time

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[-ftp- 0]

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I wish people would stop seeing me as a heartless cold person just because I do not wish to have kids.
But what can you do right?

Dude you dont get it. 99% of women think that if a man doesnt want kids that there selfish, egotisticle, self-centered jerks. They just can't put their head around the fact that we just don't want them, just like they have a choice to haave them.

Instead of asking WHY you don't want them (which by the way I didn't see 1 person ask you that) they just give you the "DECLINED" stamp and on to the next one.

Many of my friends have kids, and when I was trying to figure out if I wanted them or not I would ask them what its like. I got the same fucking response from everybody: "Things change." I said what things change? "The relationship changes, you guys both care so much about the kids that the spouse takes a back seat." I shockingly would ask: Doesnt that disapoint you? "NO, we both feel the same way and its just a change in feelings"

So thats the reason I don't want them, I dont want things to change between my wife and I. But like I said earlier, she "lied" to me before we got married by saying she doesnt care about having kids. Well come to find out she does, so Ill be the one that sacrafices what he wants for the happiness of his wife. Do you really expect it to be her?

[amstalder 0]

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I wish people would stop seeing me as a heartless cold person just because I do not wish to have kids.
But what can you do right?

Dude you dont get it. 99% of women think that if a man doesnt want kids that there selfish, egotisticle, self-centered jerks. They just can't put their head around the fact that we just don't want them, just like they have a choice to haave them.

Instead of asking WHY you don't want them (which by the way I didn't see 1 person ask you that) they just give you the "DECLINED" stamp and on to the next one.

Many of my friends have kids, and when I was trying to figure out if I wanted them or not I would ask them what its like. I got the same fucking response from everybody: "Things change." I said what things change? "The relationship changes, you guys both care so much about the kids that the spouse takes a back seat." I shockingly would ask: Doesnt that disapoint you? "NO, we both feel the same way and its just a change in feelings"

So thats the reason I don't want them, I dont want things to change between my wife and I. But like I said earlier, she "lied" to me before we got married by saying she doesnt care about having kids. Well come to find out she does, so Ill be the one that sacrafices what he wants for the happiness of his wife. Do you really expect it to be her?

I don't think the issue here is that he doesn't want kids, it's that he's lying about it. And if Shah not wanting kids is such a deal breaker for a woman, he doesn't need to be with her, it's a waste of time.

Shah, get the snip snip, it'll save you the hassle of having to lie.

[shah269 0]

First off I'm not lying.
I'm not saying "YES I WANT KIDS! I want ten of them!"
I just say "I'm not sure."
A few of you have even said it yourself, you say "maybe" just so people will stop asking you.
And as such I say "maybe" so the girl will not see me as something I'm not.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 2,991]

>I just say "I'm not sure."

Hmm. A while back you said:

============
I would rather place a tooth pick under my toe nail and kick a wall than to have kids.
I don’t want them, not now not ever.
I honestly don't wish to ever have kids.
============

So back to my question:

If a woman lied to you about being a mom (and managed to hide it until you were "hooked") would you be OK with that?

[shah269 0]

Well I guess you are right.....I'll just come out and say it and deal with the responce.
Though I'm not a selfish cold hearted individual I do not wish to have kids.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[flyangel2 2]

Your sig line:

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay

Live by what you say

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[billvon 2,991]

>I'll just come out and say it and deal with the responce.

I think that's a good plan - and has the best chance of allowing you to find someone who might be a good long term match.

[shah269 0]

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Your sig line:

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay

Live by what you say

I do my best.
I may not wish to have kids but I do my best to volunteer to help.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[towerrat 0]

I don't know you at all brother, but here's what I've taken from this whole conversation

You seem very pompous, as well as very set in your ways. You have mommy issues. You have trouble meeting/relating to women in the real world, hence the dating sites. You have a problem with the truth. You seem very controlling. You're not well to do.

I can't imagine why you can't find the right person.........

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

[shah269 0]

WOW thank you.....what a great view of who and what I really am.
May I hire you to write my life story?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[theonlyski 8]

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WOW thank you.....what a great view of who and what I really am.
May I hire you to write my life story?

Way to show him wrong!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message