Satisfaction with your life is a direct result of the choices you make

[grimmie 186]

Satisfaction is a direct result of the friends you make and the beer you drink.

[NWFlyer 2]

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Satisfaction is a direct result of the friends you make and the beer you drink.

Which can both be good or bad choices.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Squeak 17]

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*sigh* I suppose from you I should expect no less than a shallow response.

His response is not Shallow, it has a fair amount of merit, it may not be a universal truth, but in modern western culture appearance IS currency in a lot of situations.
It may not be pertinent to your situation but it would hold a lot of weight in many many other situations.
Just because you don't like his response does not make it unjust or wrong

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Muffie 0]

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His response is not Shallow, it has a fair amount of merit, it may not be a universal truth, but in modern western culture appearance IS currency in a lot of situations.
It may not be pertinent to your situation but it would hold a lot of weight in many many other situations.
Just because you don't like his response does not make it unjust or wrong

I wasn't a fan of Shah's response either, mostly because it's so one-dimensional. I think he quoted something about a woman being lucky she was attractive or she'd go hungry? And, yet again made reference to the guy who gets stuck with her being the loser/sucker/whatever. And how there's some point where she'll lose it all.

Agreed, looks are valuable. They are a currency that can be spent when needed. But they're not the only currency. Intelligence, education, a good work ethic, and specialized skills can all get you somewhere, too. Especially in this day and age where more and more work is done virtually.

And it's not like a woman hits some magical expiration date at 30 or 40 and suddenly loses her looks. She may no longer appeal to men who are looking for 20-something beach bunnies, but a woman who trades on her appearance can still do so for a very large portion of her life if she doesn't completely abuse herself and as long as she appreciates that her target market has shifted.

[Nataly 38]

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*sigh* I suppose from you I should expect no less than a shallow response.

His response is not Shallow, it has a fair amount of merit, it may not be a universal truth, but in modern western culture appearance IS currency in a lot of situations.
It may not be pertinent to your situation but it would hold a lot of weight in many many other situations.
Just because you don't like his response does not make it unjust or wrong

To me, his response was one-dimentional (another word for shallow). I didn't say his statement is wrong... In fact usually I agree with most of what Shah posts except that I usually find what he writes simply isn't the whole picture/truth.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[hokierower 0]

I agree that while there may be a few things that are out of your hands, especially when growing up and under your parents, but as soon as a person decides to "spread their wings" their decisions are their own.

I wasn't happy in my major in college and decided to switch to something much more practical v. theoretical and was much happier. I made another choice to leave ROTC but still had the intention of still entering the service after graduation. I decided to pursue an internship in my field and that turned into another internship and then a job and now, unless I get fired, I won't be joining the Marine Corps, something that I wanted to do since I was a little kid (dad's a Marine, still is). But even though I didn't do it, I'm still completely content and HAPPY with what I do.

You make your own decisions and should live with the consequences. I believe that everything always works itself out in the end. It may not always go your way, but it'll level itself out so long as you make good, sound decisions.

[shah269 0]

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To me, his response was one-dimentional (another word for shallow). I didn't say his statement is wrong... In fact usually I agree with most of what Shah posts except that I usually find what he writes simply isn't the whole picture/truth.

I need to stop seeing the world as a system of circuits running on a basic evolutionary code. It may be right, it may be true it may be valid but......it's cold. It takes away the "magic" the "mystery" the "whatever the hell it is really bad chick flicks are based on.."

Yes we are no more than biological machines running on a very primitive operating system. But, pointing this out takes away other peoples "satisfaction", believe in the "magic" "mystery" of the universe and does not help me find the level of "satisfaction with life" that I seek.

I may no longer be able to "see" this "magic" or "mystery" due to the slings and arrows which have stricken me in my life. But I should not rob others of their view of the world.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Nataly 38]

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To me, his response was one-dimentional (another word for shallow). I didn't say his statement is wrong... In fact usually I agree with most of what Shah posts except that I usually find what he writes simply isn't the whole picture/truth.

I need to stop seeing the world as a system of circuits running on a basic evolutionary code. It may be right, it may be true it may be valid but......it's cold. It takes away the "magic" the "mystery" the "whatever the hell it is really bad chick flicks are based on.."

From my point of view, most of what you say isn't wrong... It's just that you're only scratching the surface... There is so much more at play than biology... There is so much more to happiness than finding "The One"... There is so much more to beauty than being under a size 8... There's so much more to success/fulfillment than the size of someone's paycheck...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[shah269 0]

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From my point of view, most of what you say isn't wrong... It's just that you're only scratching the surface... There is so much more at play than biology... There is so much more to happiness than finding "The One"... There is so much more to beauty than being under a size 8... There's so much more to success/fulfillment than the size of someone's paycheck...

The momemtn we stop thinking we are more evolved than the rest of the animals that enhabit this earth is the moment we disconnect with the reality of our biology.

Love is not blind.
If it were, you would not have eyes.
I use the word love....feverously but I'm sure you can understand what I intend.

Our behavior is not only governed by our biology but also by how that biology interacts with our society. Like it or not....and I'm going to guess not.....a good looking guy or a girl will be allowed to complain more about their lives and be more discontent for others have provided them the privilege of voicing their discontent due the "currency" of their outward physiology. Their looks and our desire to mate with those who fit a given "look" / "shape" / "size"

They are "spending" their "currency" so in a manner that allows them to obtain a level of empathy from others. And as long as they have "currency" they can spend it in procuring emotional reassurance from others.

Others are "spending" their "currency of empathy" so that the person with the better "looks" may perhaps find them attractive and consider them for a mate.

Now there are truly hard luck cases where people are just going to not be happy with life even though they lack the "currency". Those are truly interesting cases.

Those are the people that make us look at our built in programming and wonder what is going on?


All that aside...I need to stop viewing the world in this way. It's not good for me and it's not good for you. Sometimes it's better to just "beleive" than know how the magic is done.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[wmw999 2,534]

I'm going to say one thing.

Lust is not blind. Love can be blind, but we confuse lust with love so much that it's hard to tell where one ends and the other begins. And for some people they're the same thing -- our capacities for love as people are different.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[missbrz 0]

The biology major in me won't let me let this go. Even if love has nothing to do with eyes, we'd still have them. They're also used for predator avoidance and food location. So we'd still have eyes. Jus' sayin'

[Nataly 38]

Let me give an example... Are you familiar with Herzberg’s theories on motivation??

If not, here is a brief (but not comprehensive) synopsis:

He divides motivational factors (in relation to one's job) into 2 categories - Motivators and Hygiene Factors. Motivators increase happiness at work and encourage people to work harder. Hygiene factors do not motivate or cause people to work harder, but if you get these *wrong*, they can be de-motivational. Examples of Hygiene Factors (this may come as a surprise to some people) are: job security, status, pay and benefits. In other words, having these things doesn't make people happy, but not having these things can make people unhappy.

What I'm getting at, is that the things we *want* are not always the things that really make us happy. You can have all the ingredients, but not the "magic" (to use your terminology). I often think your problem is that you are focusing on a lot of "hygiene factors" in your personal life and not really looking at the real "motivators."

The wikipedia definition (clicky) is a pretty good one and can easily be adapted/applied in the context of one's personal life/relationships.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[david3 0]

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From my point of view, most of what you say isn't wrong... It's just that you're only scratching the surface... There is so much more at play than biology... There is so much more to happiness than finding "The One"... There is so much more to beauty than being under a size 8... There's so much more to success/fulfillment than the size of someone's paycheck...

The momemtn we stop thinking we are more evolved than the rest of the animals that enhabit this earth is the moment we disconnect with the reality of our biology.

Love is not blind.
If it were, you would not have eyes.
I use the word love....feverously but I'm sure you can understand what I intend.

Our behavior is not only governed by our biology but also by how that biology interacts with our society. Like it or not....and I'm going to guess not.....a good looking guy or a girl will be allowed to complain more about their lives and be more discontent for others have provided them the privilege of voicing their discontent due the "currency" of their outward physiology. Their looks and our desire to mate with those who fit a given "look" / "shape" / "size"

They are "spending" their "currency" so in a manner that allows them to obtain a level of empathy from others. And as long as they have "currency" they can spend it in procuring emotional reassurance from others.

Others are "spending" their "currency of empathy" so that the person with the better "looks" may perhaps find them attractive and consider them for a mate.

Now there are truly hard luck cases where people are just going to not be happy with life even though they lack the "currency". Those are truly interesting cases.

Those are the people that make us look at our built in programming and wonder what is going on?


All that aside...I need to stop viewing the world in this way. It's not good for me and it's not good for you. Sometimes it's better to just "beleive" than know how the magic is done.

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One can't complain. I have my friends. Someone spoke to me only yesterday.
Eeyore
Winnie the Pooh

[shah269 0]

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Let me give an example... Are you familiar with Herzberg’s theories on motivation??

If not, here is a brief (but not comprehensive) synopsis:.

The means to an end should never be confused with a ends to the mean. (ex money will not bring you happiness but it may make the search for happiness easier)

I never said that these "better looking people" were any more happy or satisfied with life. All I said is that they have more "capital" to spend on "purchasing" your empathy.

So the error is on me. I hijaked the thread. I to confused the means to the end for the end it in it self. Sorry Nat.
But, if we are "allowed" to continually get away with bing unhappy and able to have an ear into which we can spill our emotions regarding our unhappyness and dissatisfaction...can we ever truly appreciate what we have?

I know I should be satisfied with my life. I'm healthy, I am comfortable and I have some amazing friends. But deep down, I feel imcomplete. I've felt that way my entire life. I have looked for it high and low. In people and in activities. But I have yet to truly feel "satisfied" with who I am and where I am. Maybe my DNA is just "off".

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[wmw999 2,534]

Some of you older dz.commers remember the famous "smile in the mirror for 20 minutes a day and your depression will go away." That was bullshit, and so is expecting everyone to be able to be happy with what they have.

Each of us has to look inside for what makes us tick, and what makes us happy. Some of us are lucky enough that the holes in our lives are standard-shaped ones, filled by the available marriages, hobbies, etc.

Others have to look harder, because the hole is more complicated. In that case, yeah, it does mean that the person has to work harder to fill that hole, if that's what's necessary to be happy. Or they have to figure out how to re-shape it so that it's no longer gaping, just available.

Most of us can do it; it's harder for some people than for others. Such is life. Then again, most of us here on dz.com are lucky enough to be worried about happiness and internet connectivity, rather than food or shelter, for us or for our children.

Some of us are just more public in trying to figure out the holes than others. Ya know -- whatever works.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DanG 1]

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Others have to look harder, because the hole is more complicated. In that case, yeah, it does mean that the person has to work harder to fill that hole, if that's what's necessary to be happy. Or they have to figure out how to re-shape it so that it's no longer gaping, just available.

That's what she said.



Sorry, I couldn't help it. This is Bonfire, right?

- Dan G

[billvon 3,070]

>Satisfaction is a direct result of the friends you make and the beer you drink.

And the beer you make.

[NWFlyer 2]

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>Satisfaction is a direct result of the friends you make and the beer you drink.

And the beer you make.

And the beer your friends make. I've been extremely satisfied with my life when I drink your beers, Bill.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[billvon 3,070]

>Yes we are no more than biological machines running on a very primitive
>operating system.

You keep claiming that there is this unalterable biological standard of beauty. If that were true, the same things would be attractive, always.

Yet we all know that's not true. Some guys are attracted to tall women, some to small. Today most guys are attracted to skinny women. In the 16th centiury most guys were attracted to fat women.

The only truly culturally invariant standards we know of are symmetry (i.e. people whose both halves look about the same) and averageness (i.e. their feature sizes are close to median for a given population.) When scientists look closely at any other criteria - waist to hip ratio, height, overall weight, body mass index, hair color etc - it varies from culture to culture, and from time to time.

So where do all these other standards come from? Personal choice. Our upbringing and the effects society has on us. Our decisions. Stuff in our past.

So when you claim "it's a biological fact; people are not attracted to X" you're really saying "it's a personal fact that I am not attracted to X."

[shah269 0]

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Yet we all know that's not true.....Today most guys are attracted to skinny women. In the 16th century most guys were attracted to fat women.

Without hijacking this thread. I disagree with your line of logic.

For a lack of a better words, you are angry at what I have written. You find it offensive and at odds with your inner view of what you want the world to be and what we all tell each other "it's really what's on the inside that makes you beautiful". You will grab at strands of data far outside of the norm and state that they are "the norm" when in fact they are just that, outlying data points.

One random population that due to amazing environmental factors prefers one feature over another countering the social norms of the day.

We are predetermined to be attracted to health, virility and symmetry and a finite ratio of dimensions that imply such key features. If it were not true the global market place would never work. And you would not look at say the statue of David and think "Hu, I think I want to give this guy my number." And the same reason why Marlin still looks great (insert argument regarding how if she were alive today she would be told to lose weight, though when she started work and took that great nude photo she was more svelte).

I'm sorry. But if it makes you feel any better I wish I was wrong. I'm not a fan or a proponent of the homogenized world. I love diversity in all its forms. And find beauty in all but...then there is that biological code. I'm working on turning it off. Maybe I will stop seeing the world this way.

Maybe the secret to satisfaction is not knowing. Ignorance may be the bliss that provides for a satisfying life?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[NWFlyer 2]

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I'm not a fan or a proponent of the homogenized world. I love diversity in all its forms. And find beauty in all but...then there is that biological code.

Then how do you explain all the people outside of the "homogenized world" (as you call it) of a certain beauty standard who nonetheless manage to meet, fall in love, make a commitment (whether it's marriage or not), procreate (there's that biological code at work!), and live reasonably fulfilled lives? Conversely, how do you explain all the miserable pretty people?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[shah269 0]

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Then how do you explain all the people outside of the "homogenized world" (as you call it) of a certain beauty standard who nonetheless manage to meet, fall in love, make a commitment (whether it's marriage or not), procreate (there's that biological code at work!), and live reasonably fulfilled lives? ?

Satisfied As in they are. And that's beautiful.

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Conversely, how do you explain all the miserable pretty people

We covered that on page 1 I think? They are unsatisfied because....the are enabled to be.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Nataly 38]

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We are predetermined to be attracted to health, virility and symmetry and a finite ratio of dimensions that imply such key features.

This is funny because a vast number of westerners (dare I say the "majority"?) think supermodels are the epitome of "attractive" and I'm not sure they are the "picture of health"!!

Also... Been to Africa much?? It's a large continent... And as such it's hard to generalise... But an overwhelming percentage (dare I say the "majority"?) like "fat" (almost "obese") women... I believe the practice of force-feeding girls before their wedding is more common than the age-old American tradition of starving oneself to fit into a tiny wedding dress!!!

Come on Shah... You have a narrow view of what "biologically" attracts men to women. A view that is not supported by the wide range of what men actually like across (or even within) different cultures...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[shah269 0]

Africa, nice place. Been there. It was fun. The girls of RSA are so beautiful.

Rebuttal;

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For a lack of a better words, you are angry at what I have written. You find it offensive and at odds with your inner view of what you want the world to be and what we all tell each other "it's really what's on the inside that makes you beautiful". You will grab at strands of data far outside of the norm and state that they are "the norm" when in fact they are just that, outlying data points.

wow I feel satisfied....
But I could be wrong
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1039581/Flavio-Briatores-wife-Elisabetta-Gregoraci-shows-bikini-body-honeymoon.html
Yeah...he's so...hum....aahh....well she's in it for the $$$. I'm sure she will look past all the other flaws.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[rehmwa 2]

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The only truly culturally invariant standards we know of are symmetry (i.e. people whose both halves look about the same) and averageness (i.e. their feature sizes are close to median for a given population.) When scientists look closely at any other criteria - waist to hip ratio, height,

Studies has been done, I've seen a few documentaries on it, it's fascinating - I agree with symmetry, and the term "averageness" is misleading as an overall term, it means individual features that are not disproportional combine to the most effective total.

I do disagree on the waist to hip ratio thing. That's been proven. for women.

Men - features that indicate being a good defender and strong provider (tall, strong neck, etc)

It's just anthropology in action.

as for skinny vs fat vs fit - each of the periods of time that these fit in as "attractive" those features implied success. In poor regions, being fat implies success. In rich regions or regions with a very busy work ethic, fit implies successful enough to take the time to be fit, or wealthy enough to hire a trainer, etc. you get the idea.....

it's all about survival and improving the feature and identifying those traits the propagate genes the best

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants