Hooknswoop 19 #1 March 13, 2005 If you do not clean your cutaway cables every 30 days you deserve a hard cutaway. This is not new. Not cleaning your cutaway cables is known to cause hard cutaways. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divnswoop 0 #2 March 14, 2005 QuoteIf you do not clean your cutaway cables every 30 days you deserve a hard cutaway. This is not new. Not cleaning your cutaway cables is known to cause hard cutaways. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out the reason for the SB. Is it a case of a "newer" company trying to cover their a$$ or just raise awareness within the community? Maybe somebody who didn't know that the cables should be cleaned regularly and will read the SB?!?....Anybody close to the manufacturer care to elaborate why they put out a SB? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
avgjoe 0 #3 March 14, 2005 QuoteIs it a case of a "newer" company trying to cover their a$$ or just raise awareness within the community? Maybe somebody who didn't know that the cables should be cleaned regularly and will read the SB?!? I was told riggers clean the cutaway cables but do they the run any thing threw the hard housings in an attempt to clean them. What could be inside the hard housings? Also is this the second big service bulletin to address sloppy rigging? Are the gear makers questioning the skill riggers across the board or just covering there a$$? Avgjoe hook it for safety Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #4 March 14, 2005 I'm interested in the Aerodyne definition of "paraffin" To an American this is usually interpreted as paraffin wax, which is surely not the case. I have encountered a wide variety of paraffin oils, but am not clear on what Aerodyne wants. What product available here in the US is suitable? The standard for this maintenance is pure silicone spray lube, although often WD-40 is also used. I have emailed Aerodyne and asked for a clarification. I'll post what I hear. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #5 March 14, 2005 Quote I was told riggers clean the cutaway cables but do they the run any thing threw the hard housings in an attempt to clean them. What could be inside the hard housings? Your rigger should clean the cutaway cables for you on your mandated inspection, but (at least in the US) that's once every 4 months. Other countries that can be as much as every 6 months. YOU should clean your cutaway clables and do your three ring maintenance every month......Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #6 March 14, 2005 In Britain, paraffin is what you guys call Kerosene. Of course my interpretation of "paraffin" is worth squat next to what the manufacturer actually means. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #7 March 14, 2005 I also have sent an email. In the U.K. and former colonies and maybe more of the E.U. paraffin means kerosene. Realize this was written by a South African. I would hesitate to use kerosene due to the smelly nature and questionable results of spilling it on the nylon. Kerosene, being a mixture of hydrocarbons would dissolve the heavy oil. I think the goal is to clean the inside of the housing of the residual oil from the manufacuter of the metal hose. WD 40 wouldn't neccessarily do the job. IF I wanted to do that I'd use hexane or mineral spirits. Also being careful not to get it on any other part and to make sure it was completely dry prior to installing the coated cables. BUT, I'm not so sure it's appropriate to remove ALL of the residual oil from the flexible housing. Cleaning the inside of the housings has never been a standard practice in the U.S. that I know of. And I'd very much prefer to have the housings off the rig to do it. The oil is what attracts the dirt, grime, or in this case sand. But I'm not sure a completely unlubricated housing is appropriate. Jumpers SHOULD be cleaning there cables monthly. Recommended is food grade silicone spray lubricant on a rag or paper towel. Food grade because it DOESN'T contain hydrocarbons. ********************************************************* I would NOT use American "paraffin" (candle wax) until clarification is made. This would only gum up the works more. I don't believe the intent is to add lubrication but to remove oil, which attracts the dirt. But only my humble opinion. Chair, PIA Rigging CommitteeI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrHixxx 0 #8 March 14, 2005 I also emailed Aerodyne on this. Silicone lubricant (more commonly used by riggers I know)is also acceptable... -Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adrock 0 #9 March 14, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf you do not clean your cutaway cables every 30 days you deserve a hard cutaway. This is not new. Not cleaning your cutaway cables is known to cause hard cutaways. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out the reason for the SB. Is it a case of a "newer" company trying to cover their a$$ or just raise awareness within the community? Maybe somebody who didn't know that the cables should be cleaned regularly and will read the SB?!?....Anybody close to the manufacturer care to elaborate why they put out a SB? I'm also curious as to the fact that this was not only a service bulletin, but a mandatory one. Seems strange when this one: http://www.aerodyne-int.com/download/iconlegstrap0704.pdf was optional but resulted from known leg strap slippage (I know my legstraps were slipping even when routed correctly). Now, as an Icon owner, I have to try and find a rigger who will perform this maintenance for me before Friday, or I can't jump this weekend. Don't get me wrong, I would like to know if there is something dangerous with the system I am jumping, but as someone who cleans the cables regularly, I'm wondering if this should be mandatory? Addie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aubsmell 0 #10 March 14, 2005 Just wanted to reply to a bunch of these with a little clarification. Also I’ll let you know a technique that we have been using here, that works well. You can substitute “Food Grade Silicon” for Pariffin I’ll give you some back ground on the incident: Someone went to switch out a canopy at Skydive Capetown in South Africa and had a hard pull on the ground, they tested a couple of others on the ground and found the cut away force excessive. They gave us a call to let us know what was going down, the thing that sparked our interest is that they had a few rigs with very close serial numbers made in a very narrow time frame the rigs were fairly new. We thought there may be some defect, so we sent our technical director down to inspect the rigs, some of which we directed them not to touch. Upon inspection, it was clear that due to the nature of the DZ, very fine sand, windy environment that excessively dirty cable housings were the culprit. Arguably, you could say it is a tad excessive that we mandate that you clean your cable housings, and cables (something that you should do anyway). However, as a company we feel that we have the obligation to do whatever we can to keep our customers as safe as possible, to include informing them if we find any problems or potential problems with something as important as the cut away system. The fact that the pieces in question are fairly universal in the industry (standard size cables and cable housings from the same manufacturers, used by most major container manufacturers), and are not limited to only our brand system is irrelevant. Hopefully this SB will inspire everyone to take note that is very important do proper gear maintenance, and without it your system may not function correctly. Some tips on cleaning: A very easy way to execute this cleaning when you are at the dropzone next: See if you can get a hold of a piece of spectra, a rigger who has done a reline will most likely have one lying around, a new clean piece is best, if you can get a piece with a sewn in eyelet or cats eye it’s best. Take a small piece of cloth (a gun barrel cleaning patch works best, or even a little square of t-shirt material) and feed it through the little sewn eyelet, and run the spectra through the housing, (I’ve been doing it like a rifle barrel one dry, one “wet” one dry) The point isn’t to soak it in silicone, it is to clean it and leave a “light” coat of oil. Then clean your cables with a cotton cloth and silicon or just a paper towel and silicon. You should repeat this process periodically to insure proper function of your system, regardless of the brand. Your rigger will usually clean your cables at least at each repack in the U.S. but it is best to be a bit more thorough. If you have any questions on the cleaning technique feel free to email Jody Conn at j.conn(at)aerodyne-int.com -Aubrey"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #11 March 14, 2005 Aubrey, Thanks for the clarification. Silicone it is... I will add that the problem of a hard pulls on a cutaway handle is, although not widespread, essentially just as possible on any other rig, since they all use pretty much the same technology. It is seen in the field occasionally. I certainly recall Bill Booth discussing it with me as a situation he had seen and attributed to dirt, just as in this case. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fab 0 #12 March 14, 2005 I think it's good that a company keeps their customers informed about these problems but to make this mandatory??.. I don't know. Just have my rig a month. Cutaways cable were cleaned two weeks ago during inspection/repack. Now that there is a SB I guess my rigger can clean them again??...This sounds nuts. Will you issue a new SB again next month to remind us we have to clean our cables again?? ... _______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #13 March 14, 2005 Relax. Just clean your cables every 30 days and move on. SB's are not mandatory. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #14 March 15, 2005 >Now that there is a SB I guess my rigger can clean them again?? If you want. Or if you don't want to, don't give it to him. Your rig is legal to jump for another 100 days or so (120 days - 2 weeks.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #15 March 15, 2005 Just a couple of questions. Will you be issuing a follow up SB with a wording change to include “Food Grade Silicon”. Something other than a posting on DZ.com. Also, did you use a scale to determine what the pull was on the different cutaway systems? If not how did you determine a "hard pull"? Thanks, SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #16 March 15, 2005 QuoteAubrey, Thanks for the clarification. Silicone it is... I will add that the problem of a hard pulls on a cutaway handle is, although not widespread, essentially just as possible on any other rig, since they all use pretty much the same technology. It is seen in the field occasionally. I certainly recall Bill Booth discussing it with me as a situation he had seen and attributed to dirt, just as in this case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many years ago, in Southern California, I measured a 25 pound pull on dirty release cables. After cleaning, they only needed a 5 pound pull to release. Dirty cables can cause hard pulls on any rig from any manufacturer. Aerodyne's latest SB reminds me of a similar SB issued by Parachutes de France. P de F attributed the problem to the rolling mill failing to clean cutting oil from housings. I wonder if Aerodyne buys their housings from the same mill? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fab 0 #17 March 15, 2005 QuoteRelax. Just clean your cables every 30 days and move on. SB's are not mandatory. Derek Thought Sb's were mandatory...Oops _______________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zhark 0 #18 March 15, 2005 Although I understand that regular gear checks are necessary, surely it should not be mandatory to clean your cables every - say - 30 days in order to be able to cutaway your main canopy?!? I ask because I know of the rigs in question, and it was not a "hard cutaway". There was no concievable way that someone would have been able to cut this away. 4 different people tried and no-one could cut it away. Eventually 2 people tried together and then the cable came out with much grating and effort. The other rigs (5 I think) all had similar problems although not as serious (i.e. they required excessive force, but it was actually possible to perform the cutaway). Also, why only the Icons? I jump here often and cutaway many rigs to swop canopies etc. Never had a hard pull or heard about one? Is there not something different about the icon's cutaway system? Is it definately "standard size cables and cable housings from the same manufacturers, used by most major container manufacturers"? 6 months from now there will be new jumpers on the scene, none of them know about this SB. Other jumpers will never hear about the SB. DZ's will have forgotten about the SB. Are these new jumpers going to clean their cables? If they don't and end up under a mal they are not able to cutaway from?? Am I missing something here, or am I right in worrying about this? Edit to add: I know our riggers do clean the cutaway cables with paraffin, but I do not know how often or whether it is just every repack (6 months). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #19 March 15, 2005 QuoteAlthough I understand that regular gear checks are necessary, surely it should not be mandatory to clean your cables every - say - 30 days in order to be able to cutaway your main canopy?!? Yes, it is. Cleaning your cutaway cables every 30 days has been a recommendation for a long time. QuoteAlthough I understand that regular gear checks are necessary, surely it should not be mandatory to clean your cables every - say - 30 days in order to be able to cutaway your main canopy?!? I ask because I know of the rigs in question, and it was not a "hard cutaway". There was no concievable way that someone would have been able to cut this away. 4 different people tried and no-one could cut it away. Eventually 2 people tried together and then the cable came out with much grating and effort. The other rigs (5 I think) all had similar problems although not as serious (i.e. they required excessive force, but it was actually possible to perform the cutaway). This is why you clean your cutaway cables every 30 days with silicone. Ace Pure Silicone Lubricant works great. QuoteAlso, why only the Icons? It's not just Icons. Every rig with 3-rings needs the cutaway cables cleaned every 30 days. QuoteI jump here often and cutaway many rigs to swop canopies etc. Never had a hard pull or heard about one? Is there not something different about the icon's cutaway system? Is it definately "standard size cables and cable housings from the same manufacturers, used by most major container manufacturers"? I have seen a bunch of hard cutaways that cleaning the cables fixed. Quote6 months from now there will be new jumpers on the scene, none of them know about this SB. Other jumpers will never hear about the SB. DZ's will have forgotten about the SB. Are these new jumpers going to clean their cables? If they don't and end up under a mal they are not able to cutaway from?? Dirty cutaway cables cause hard pulls. that is common knowledge and has been for a long time. It is also common knowledge that most jumpers don't maintain their gear and can't be bothered to learn about it. If you are not cleaning your cutaway cables every 30 days, you are setting yourself up for a hard cutaway. QuoteAm I missing something here, or am I right in worrying about this? You should worry about it and releive that worry by cleaning your cables every 30 days. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #20 March 15, 2005 QuoteAce Pure Silicone Lubricant works great. Where is the best place to get this stuff? Is it a spray? How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #21 March 15, 2005 Ace = Ace Hardware Store. It is a spray. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #22 March 15, 2005 Every skydiver should get into the habit of cleaning his cutaway cables every month. It seems that half the confusion is over European versus American definitions. "Paraffin" is a British term for kerosene. Aerodyne USA assured me that almost any cleaning fluid will do "as long as it does not leave an oily residue." On a similar note, the latest Icon leg strap upgarde specifies "5 thread," which is a European specification for (United States Mil-Spec) E thread or (American commercial grade) size 69 nylon thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #23 March 15, 2005 QuoteEvery skydiver should get into the habit of cleaning his cutaway cables every month. It seems that half the confusion is over European versus American definitions. "Paraffin" is a British term for kerosene. Aerodyne USA assured me that almost any cleaning fluid will do "as long as it does not leave an oily residue." On a similar note, the latest Icon leg strap upgarde specifies "5 thread," which is a European specification for (United States Mil-Spec) E thread or (American commercial grade) size 69 nylon thread. Unless the wording is changed, compliance with the SB will not be met with Silicone or anything other then paraffin. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #24 March 15, 2005 Aren't service bulletins suposed to be noted on the packing card, or is that only when the SB requires it? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #25 March 15, 2005 A rigger must record any work done on the reserve card and in their logbook. It is common practice to note any SB's done to rigs so that the next rigger doesn't have to repeat it if they can't tell it was done (an inspection for example). On that note, SB's aren't mandatory according to the FAR's, only AD's are. It is perfectly legal to pack and jump a rig with SB's not complied with. Either the FAA doesn't care or decided that the SB wasn't serious enough to warrent and AD issued by the FAA. Most likely the FAA doesn't care enough to be bothered with skydiving gear SB's/AD's. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites