relationships..

[rnicks 0]

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There simply isn't any rational reason for a man to marry these days.

That's ridiculous!

It's funny how most the people that bash marriage (not just in this thread, but these forums in general) are ones that have failed marriages themselves. They then give the advice that "nothing lasts anyway". Plenty of people are living very happy committed lives.

Please note, I've never been married myself, nor do I think that it's in the cards for me, but I certainly believe "forever" is possible.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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+1


Just kidding. Now I'll leave this thread.


Let me emphasize that for ya.

[Nataly 38]

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There simply isn't any rational reason for a man to marry these days.

That's ridiculous!

It's funny how most the people that bash marriage (not just in this thread, but these forums in general) are ones that have failed marriages themselves. They then give the advice that "nothing lasts anyway". Plenty of people are living very happy committed lives.

Please note, I've never been married myself, nor do I think that it's in the cards for me, but I certainly believe "forever" is possible.

The people with "failed marriages" have an accurate view on marriage - they were married and are entitled to speak about their experience of it. You who believe in forever but haven't been married?? Well, you fall into the category of people who are hypothesising. Not saying you're wrong, but that you have less of a leg to stand on than the people who gave it a shot. Just my $0.02

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[piisfish 140]

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1. learn how to swoop
2. get a panty-dropper
3. profit

do you mean he has to sell his Micron and get a Mirage ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[piisfish 140]

average relationships suck...
better relationships swallow

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[rnicks 0]

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There simply isn't any rational reason for a man to marry these days.

That's ridiculous!

It's funny how most the people that bash marriage (not just in this thread, but these forums in general) are ones that have failed marriages themselves. They then give the advice that "nothing lasts anyway". Plenty of people are living very happy committed lives.

Please note, I've never been married myself, nor do I think that it's in the cards for me, but I certainly believe "forever" is possible.

The people with "failed marriages" have an accurate view on marriage - they were married and are entitled to speak about their experience of it. You who believe in forever but haven't been married?? Well, you fall into the category of people who are hypothesising. Not saying you're wrong, but that you have less of a leg to stand on than the people who gave it a shot. Just my $0.02

You are correct in that they are entitled to speak about their experience of marriage. But that's about all I agree with. My point was to say that the advice of "nothing last forever" is not accurate. It didn't last for them, but it doesn't mean it won't last for the next guy. And "nothing" would include all marriages.

I have seen plenty of marriages last until the end (one spouse dies). So it would be a factual statement that some do last, not an opinion. Though I haven't experience forever myself, I've witnessed it first hand. So this gives me both my legs to be able to give this accurate statement.

The jaded advice that marriage will never last, based on the premise that their own did not last, is what I originally had a problem with.

[Nataly 38]

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There simply isn't any rational reason for a man to marry these days.

That's ridiculous!

It's funny how most the people that bash marriage (not just in this thread, but these forums in general) are ones that have failed marriages themselves. They then give the advice that "nothing lasts anyway". Plenty of people are living very happy committed lives.

Please note, I've never been married myself, nor do I think that it's in the cards for me, but I certainly believe "forever" is possible.

The people with "failed marriages" have an accurate view on marriage - they were married and are entitled to speak about their experience of it. You who believe in forever but haven't been married?? Well, you fall into the category of people who are hypothesising. Not saying you're wrong, but that you have less of a leg to stand on than the people who gave it a shot. Just my $0.02

You are correct in that they are entitled to speak about their experience of marriage. But that's about all I agree with. My point was to say that the advice of "nothing last forever" is not accurate. It didn't last for them, but it doesn't mean it won't last for the next guy. And "nothing" would include all marriages.

I have seen plenty of marriages last until the end (one spouse dies). So it would be a factual statement that some do last, not an opinion. Though I haven't experience forever myself, I've witnessed it first hand. So this gives me both my legs to be able to give this accurate statement.

The jaded advice that marriage will never last, based on the premise that their own did not last, is what I originally had a problem with.

Ok, fair enough, but "plenty of people are living very happy committed lives" is a big statement, and one you cannot really back up. You seem (note I say *seem*) to imply that the people who experienced a "failed marriage" are not the norm, and by default that would make "successful marriages" the norm... Except it's pretty hard to define what makes a marriage successful...

Is the mere act of staying together akin to a "successful" partnership? Can a marriage be successful whilst it lasted? All I'm saying is that it's not black and white... And those "jaded" divorcees have a valid point of view... In its most extreme case you could even argue that the death of one partner is simply more evidence that nothing lasts!!!

I get your point - they may be overly pessimistic based on their own "bad" experience, but the opposite can also be true - people can be overly optimistic as well... Which nicely brings me back to my original point - people have very unrealistic expectations to start with and if we didn't we might approach relationships from a much healthier standpoint.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[rnicks 0]

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Ok, fair enough, but "plenty of people are living very happy committed lives" is a big statement, and one you cannot really back up

Actually, I CAN back it up. I've had the privilege of taking care of hundreds of dying people who have been married for many, many years. And this is only the tiny, tiny percentage of people I've been lucky to encounter. There are many more. So yes, I really can back it up.

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Is the mere act of staying together akin to a "successful" partnership?

Yes. Maybe not happy, but successful none the less.

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In its most extreme case you could even argue that the death of one partner is simply more evidence that nothing lasts!!!

??? That's the definition of a lasting marriage! Isn't it: until death do us part?

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people have very unrealistic expectations to start with and if we didn't we might approach relationships from a much healthier standpoint.

I respect your view on this, I just disagree.

[virgin-burner 1]

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1. learn how to swoop
2. get a panty-dropper
3. profit

do you mean he has to sell his Micron and get a Mirage ?

i'll only let go of my MICRON if they pry it from my dead, cold hands!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Nataly 38]

I'm talking about the broader picture and no, you cannot really know what is in the head of other people, even if they say they are happy...

The point about "nothing lasts" is also bigger than just "marriage" and I would say that the end of one's life is a pretty obvious demonstration that things are ephemeral. I'm not saying I agree with this extreme point of view - just playing devil's advocate.

And the idea that we have unrealistic expectations?? Well, yes, it is a point of view and not a fact. But I still say lots of people cling to bad relationships on the basis that they want it to work... I think this is unhealthy. I think there is value in relationships that are good even if they don't last "forever". Perhaps if we appreciated the good things (however short), there would be less pressure to "commit", thereby potentially reducing marriages that should never have happened anyway. See where I'm going with this??

It's about adjusting our perceptions so they are more accurate. It's about taking the pressure off. It's about appreciating the little things and not holding on to the bad stuff.

But you're right... It is but a point of view...

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[wings661 0]

[virgin-burner 1]

i appreciate your interesting discusion, but to bring back the thread where it had started from..

what is it that you bring to the table yourself that makes you a potential (presumably "good") partner?

what CAN you expect in return? if anything at all..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Nataly 38]

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i appreciate your interesting discusion, but to bring back the thread where it had started from..

what is it that you bring to the table yourself that makes you a potential (presumably "good") partner?

what CAN you expect in return? if anything at all..

I think being a "good partner" means different things to different people... A good partner for my best friend would pobably be quite incompatible with me...

For me, I am loyal, giving and supportive. I have a healthy sense of humour but I don't play games, I don't bullshit and I have no patience for those who do. I expect no less from my partner.

Of course I have faults (big ones!) but to me you've got to accept the whole package. My partner can expect the same from me.

After that there has to be some kind of chemistry between two people and that's perhaps the hardest thing to find...

Dunno VB... Maybe it's healthy to keep a little bit of hope alive... You know... Lest you should stumble upon something good - you wouldn't want to walk right by without noticing! And btw... Sorry to hear about the breakup..

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[icyair 0]

I'm sorry if your relationship didn't work Sandi, Nataly, ManagingPrime and everyone ... but it seems to me the general attitude is a bit on the pessimistic side. I think it's a problem of our culture, we grow up and we can learn amazingly complicated skills and knowledge (my work routinely involves discussion on things that defy any common sense conception) and yet little do we learn about ourselves.

Even if we grow up with a smart and loving family and friends (far from granted), we acquire a little wisdom on ourselves and others but no extensive knowledge, nothing comparable to scientific knowledge.

And yet why do we take that for granted? it's just our culture, because our psychological sciences are generally imprecise and not accessible to common people, we grow up with this idea.

If all our relationship never last, what's the common factor? well, it's me. I haven't changed much my behaviour or what I expect, and why should I, that's me, my identity. But is it true?

in my experience, the secret to finding happiness in relationships or in life, is very simple but not easy: to put some scientific order in our mind and heart, and I don't mean to become cold and analytical, but to balance enthusiasm with detachment, to be kind and selfless, flexible and caring to everyone, but strong and immovable when principles are at stake.

glimmering light

[deltron80 0]

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1. learn how to swoop
2. get a panty-dropper
3. profit

do you mean he has to sell his Micron and get a Mirage ?

i'll only let go of my MICRON if they pry it from my dead, cold hands!

I think we've found your problem..

[airtwardo 7]

I've had several long term relationships with some really fantastic women...every time, I wasn't 'looking' when the relationship started.

I was just living life and having fun and something clicked.

I believe that if you are 'shopping' for love, you tend to have a list of items you 'need', and the odds of any one person successfully filling that list are slim & none.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[shah269 0]

I was married for 7.5 years, she was my soul mate, those were some of the best years of my life.
She was my friend, my lover and an amazing person. And I never thought we would ever end.

I hope that one day, hopefuly not too far away, I find some one again and again hope that it will never end.

Is it dumb? Yeah you can say that. But honestly, I would really enjoy that. Now will I ever "find" that person? Odds are no

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Southern_Man 0]

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There simply isn't any rational reason for a man to marry these days.

That's ridiculous!

It's funny how most the people that bash marriage (not just in this thread, but these forums in general) are ones that have failed marriages themselves. They then give the advice that "nothing lasts anyway". Plenty of people are living very happy committed lives.

Please note, I've never been married myself, nor do I think that it's in the cards for me, but I certainly believe "forever" is possible.

I don't think it is ridiculous and it is quite apart from whether things will last or not. I am all for relationships and think it is more than possible that I will be in a lasting, long term one at some point.

I still don't see any reason for marriage. Marriage is a property contract that involves the state. Nothing I want out of a relationship involves anything to do with property. Property won't have anything to do with whether it lasts or doesn't last. I don't see any reason to involve the state in my personal relationship.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Nataly 38]

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I'm sorry if your relationship didn't work Sandi, Nataly, ManagingPrime and everyone ... but it seems to me the general attitude is a bit on the pessimistic side.

On the contrary... I've had some amazing relationships and I take the view that they were great while they lasted. That's a positive (and I think healthy) perspective/attitude

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[icyair 0]

marriage doesn't need to involve the state. it's like taking a vow. you should only do it when you're ready and you really want it.
say you join the seals, I guess they take a vow to defend their country and their comrades. vows can be powerful aids

example: say you go through a rough patch in your relationship. maybe if you've taken a vow you'll find that extra drive to make it work.

glimmering light

[icyair 0]

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That's a positive (and I think healthy) perspective/attitude

yes it is : ) what I really want myself is to have better discernment so that I choose the right person next time. there's really no reason why a relationship shouldn't last your whole life if you made the right choice.

glimmering light

[happythoughts 0]

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marriage doesn't need to involve the state. it's like taking a vow. you should only do it when you're ready and you really want it.
say you join the seals, I guess they take a vow to defend their country and their comrades. vows can be powerful aids

example: say you go through a rough patch in your relationship. maybe if you've taken a vow you'll find that extra drive to make it work.

i hereby nominate this post for worst analogy of 2011.


it usually understood that the SEALs aren't fighting primarily among team members.

[happythoughts 0]

for 90% of all relationship threads, there are some logical failures.

1. marriage is only form of relationship.
2. all marriages are defined as successful relationships.
3. even if you are together for 20 happy years, you are not in a relationship.

of course, the definition of marriage is the one used by Western countries
since 1995.
people who like a religious version of marriage, do not like the original, 1st century flavor.

[Southern_Man 0]

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for 90% of all relationship threads, there are some logical failures.

1. marriage is only form of relationship.
2. all marriages are defined as successful relationships.
3. even if you are together for 20 happy years, you are not in a relationship.

I agree 100%. Successful relationships do not have to be forever. Successful relationships do not have to include marriage, even if they are forever. Marriages are not necessarily successful relationships.

I agree w/ Nataly on this.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[ManagingPrime 0]

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I'm sorry if your relationship didn't work Sandi, Nataly, ManagingPrime and everyone ... but it seems to me the general attitude is a bit on the pessimistic side.

On the contrary... I've had some amazing relationships and I take the view that they were great while they lasted. That's a positive (and I think healthy) perspective/attitude

+1

I don't think I've got a pessimistic view of events. I made the mistake of continuing the relationship after...
1. Finding out she was married.
2. Finding out that she was not officially seperated from husband (other than the 2K miles she moved away).

...as a thinking person I knew this was a reciepe for disaster, but I rolled the dice and there were a lot of great experiences and I've learned a bit more about myself from the experience.