tsisson 0 #1 September 21, 2010 Just an observation and something the bothers the hell out of me. As it starts to get colder, any DZ's out there have a blanket that gets shoved into the gap above the door to keep the cold wind out? Anyone ever observe jumpers shoving said blanket above the door before takeoff? Think about this...as you have essentially locked yourself and the rest of the load into a coffin should you have to exit fast during the first 2000-3000 ft of climb. I personally, don't want that freaking blanket anywhere near the door for the first 4000 feet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #2 September 21, 2010 That's a really good point Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #3 September 21, 2010 Use a shoe. Around 3000 ft, wedge a sneaker between the door and the inside floater bar. It will keep the wind out and be easy to remove. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #4 September 21, 2010 hmmmm as quick as "said blanket" is shoved IN the door can't it just as easily be yanked OUT???? ( should the need arise)... (which is remote, in the first place)... we're Not barnstorming anymore,,, in just any old airplanes... and Most ALL dz's and DZOs have become VERY diligent about aircraft Upkeep and maintaining High quality jumpships......so your time spent worrying about some imagined 'safey issue' during the take-off roll could be better used thinking about your upcoming skydive... i can appreciate your concern,,, but it could be a bit over exaggerated... jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #5 September 21, 2010 F-L-O-R-I-D-A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #6 September 21, 2010 What kind of jump planes do they do this in?"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psychonaut 0 #7 September 21, 2010 I've seen this in AZ during Dec/Jan. To the shoe idea, now really sure how that'll work. A shoe first of all won't form well between the door and body, and second you'd need 5 or 6 to cover the width of the door? Stay high pull low Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #8 September 21, 2010 The door in an Otter usually has reinforcements going side to side; a shoe will carry the whole door with it and form a decent seal. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tsisson 0 #9 September 21, 2010 Quote as quick as "said blanket" is shoved IN the door can't it just as easily be yanked OUT???? ( should the need arise)... (which is remote, in the first place)... we're Not barnstorming anymore,,, in just any old airplanes... i can appreciate your concern,,, but it could be a bit over exaggerated... jmy My concerns replace complacency. Try this exercise...yank the door up hard while a blanket is wedged in there...then try to remove the blanket or move the door. I jump in Arizona...and had one of those highly maintained aircraft leak Jet A all over 6 of us on the way to altitude last weekend. No aircraft are "perfectly good". Things happen as you know. Be safe... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psychonaut 0 #10 September 21, 2010 So you using the shoe between the inside bar and door itself to push it outward? Not picturing it Stay high pull low Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #11 September 21, 2010 There's a gap between the sliding door and the fuselage itself. If you jam a show inbetween the inside bar and the door, it pushes the upper edge of the door againt the fuselage and seals the gap. Keep in mind that the door is far more flexible than the bar, so when you jam a shoe in there that is too bog to fit, the door flexes to make room, and ends up making contact with the airframe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Will_Evo 0 #12 September 21, 2010 H-A-W-A-I-I Zoo Crew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Psychonaut 0 #13 September 21, 2010 I get the concept now. I guess I just wasn't seeing that possible as that would be putting some stress on the rails the door is sitting in. I'm sure there are quite a few different ways the door is installed on other otters though than what I'm used to.Stay high pull low Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #14 September 21, 2010 not sure WHY anyone would even touch the door, without first removing what's holding it.. blanket, shoe etc... it would only take a second , to do so... i see your point about an unexpected issue....however...sometimes peole can do the wrong thing , First... as for the fuel leak.... well that really sucks. sorry to hear it.. i bet none of those involved, at THAT moment, would say they "love the smell of Jet Fuel in the morning".... as for the door...P.I.C. should dictate what can and cannot be used to "seal the cold air out" . the jumpers may buy a lift ticket,,, or NOT...as they choose.. jt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 September 21, 2010 "Quotenot sure WHY anyone would even touch the door, without first removing what's holding it.. blanket, shoe etc... .. jt" .................................................................................. Worst case scenario ... the plane crashes and all the instructors, load organizers, etc. are unconscious or dead. A tandem student is the only passenger awake and she starts tugging on the door, having never flown before, never seen this type of door before, much less ever operated it, never heard about the "shoe trick," etc. That is why fire regulations require all exit doors to be stupid simple and intuitive to open (eg. push to open). I agree that blankets are an obsolete example of "african engineering." Plane owners would be better off installing rubber seals across the top edge and skydivers would be wise to learn how to dress for the cold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #16 September 21, 2010 Quotenot sure WHY anyone would even touch the door, without first removing what's holding it.. blanket, shoe etc. Panic. People burn in without deploying a single parachute and they have normally done it several times before."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #17 September 22, 2010 Option 2 - On bigways, as we go above 15,000, it gets teeth-chattering cold. A long time ago, a person noted that I was sitting back near the tail and offered to give me a blanket. It became "the plane blanket". Once we started getting close to jump run, I just passed it forward and it got tossed against the forward wall. The next year, I put 2 in the trunk. On the plane, 2 others in the back were kidding me about it. "I have another in the trunk, let me know if you want to borrow it when we land." They spoke to me in the landing area. You don't have to put wedge the blanket in the top of the door, you can wrap yourself in it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azureriders 0 #18 September 22, 2010 Assuming a sliding door on an otter, you are not really putting much pressure at all against the door or the rail with the shoe trick. The top of the door is the area where the rail has to make it's steepest bend and therefore the rail has a lot of slack in it there. The door tends to lean to the inside and therefore leaves a crack between it and the wall. The shoe simply pushes the door back to the other side of the crack, plus just a little pressure. I could see the blanket becoming jammed between the door and wall and jaming the door, but not the shoe. When you lift the door without removing the shoe, the shoe normally just jumps out anyway. When it does not, and even after someone really yanks up on the door, you can still reach up and very easily extrat the shoe. Yes I have seen this happen. I also agree that there is a chance the shoe could jam, but highly unlikely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 3 #19 September 22, 2010 Quote H-A-W-A-I-I R_E_A_L_I_T_Y Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #20 September 22, 2010 Never seen a shoe or blanket used, but those noodle pool toys seem to work well. Well, we used a blanket when the door of the caravan was removed for a weekend in october... but only in standard blanket style. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #21 September 22, 2010 Back when Men Were Men we used to jump the Beaver with no door, in winter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #22 September 22, 2010 jumping the De Havilland Beaver... was where we learned NOT to Panic..... i got my SCR And SCS Out of that Airplane...jt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velvetjo 0 #23 September 22, 2010 The same thing can be accomplished with a perpendicular wedge of plastic (same type as the door track) that's fixed permanently to the top of the door. The wedge seals the top bar against the door edge as it contacts the inside floater bar, and the plastic glides smoothly. An A&P should be the one doing the work since it will probably modify a 337 approval. Lance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #24 September 22, 2010 Now there's a good idea! Nothing to get lost out the door.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zymurdoo 0 #25 September 22, 2010 Quote I jump in Arizona...and had one of those highly maintained aircraft leak Jet A all over 6 of us on the way to altitude last weekend. No aircraft are "perfectly good". Things happen as you know. Be safe... What was the final outcome of the fuel leak issue? Last thing I knew was that your Boogie weekend was blown and they were looking at possible damage to your reserve.Blue Skies, Soft Docks and Happy Landings! CWR #23 (It's called CRW, add an e if you like, but I ain't calling it CFS. FU FAI!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
