Amazon 7 #1 November 2, 2010 http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6A000O20101101 Drug experts say alcohol worse than crack or heroin Tue, Oct 26 2010. Credit: Reuters/Regis Duvignau By Kate Kelland LONDON | Mon Nov 1, 2010 10:23am EDT LONDON (Reuters) - Alcohol is a more dangerous drug than both crack and heroin when the combined harms to the user and to others are assessed, British scientists said Monday. Presenting a new scale of drug harm that rates the damage to users themselves and to wider society, the scientists rated alcohol the most harmful overall and almost three times as harmful as cocaine or tobacco. According to the scale, devised by a group of scientists including Britain's Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs (ISCD) and an expert adviser to the European Monitoring Center for Drugs and Drug Addiction (EMCDDA), heroin and crack cocaine rank as the second and third most harmful drugs. Ecstasy is only an eighth as harmful as alcohol, according to the scientists' analysis. Professor David Nutt, chairman of the ISCD, whose work was published in the Lancet medical journal, said the findings showed that "aggressively targeting alcohol harms is a valid and necessary public health strategy." He said they also showed that current drug classification systems had little relation to the evidence of harm. Alcohol and tobacco are legal for adults in Britain and many other countries, while drugs such as ecstasy and cannabis and LSD are often illegal and carry the threat of prison sentences. "It is intriguing to note that the two legal drugs assessed -- alcohol and tobacco -- score in the upper segment of the ranking scale, indicating that legal drugs cause at least as much harm as do illegal substances," Nutt, who was formerly head of the influential British Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD), said in a statement about the study. Nutt was forced to quit the ACMD a year ago after publicly criticizing ministers for ignoring scientific advice suggesting cannabis was less harmful than alcohol. The World Health Organization estimates that risks linked to alcohol cause 2.5 million deaths a year from heart and liver disease, road accidents, suicides and cancer -- accounting for 3.8 percent of all deaths. It is the third leading risk factor for premature death and disabilities worldwide. In an effort to offer a guide to policy makers in health, policing, and social care, Nutt's team rated drugs using a technique called multicriteria decision analysis (MCDA) which assessed damage according to nine criteria on harm to the user and seven criteria on harm to others. Harms to the user included things such as drug-specific or drug-related death, damage to health, drug dependence and loss of relationships, while harms to others included crime, environmental damage, family conflict, international damage, economic cost, and damage to community cohesion. Drugs were then scored out of 100, with 100 given to the most harmful drug and zero indicating no harm at all. The scientists found alcohol was most harmful, with a score of 72, followed by heroin with 55 and crack with 54. Among some of the other drugs assessed were crystal meth (33), cocaine (27), tobacco (26), amphetamine or speed (23), cannabis (20), benzodiazepines, such as Valium (15), ketamine (15), methadone (14), mephedrone (13), ecstasy (9), anabolic steroids (9), LSD (7) and magic mushrooms (5). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #2 November 2, 2010 Great...I'm goin back on the pipe....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roostnureye 2 #3 November 2, 2010 i saw this yesterday as well, what is suprising to me is they list cannabis as being more harmful than ketamine? really? ketamine is a feline euthanization drug, it was made too kill.... i personally know quite a few people who have overdosed on ketamine, never met anyone that overdosed on cannabis. just really suprising to me they classified it that way.Flock University FWC / ZFlock B.A.S.E. 1580 Aussie BASE 121 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #4 November 2, 2010 Just from reading the article it appears that this is a public health study. So the reference in terms to personal and societal level of harm is per every X members of society, not for every X number of users of that drug. So one reason alcohol scores so high and creates so many problems is that it is widely available and widely used and abused. Ketamine would score low because it is not widely abused. This is a useful approach for a public health study because you would want to put enforcement/education/treatment dollars where they do the most good for the largest number of people. It is not a good approach for stating the conclusion that ketamine is not as bad as cannabis. Ketamine may be more harmful to its actual users but less important as a public health priority because of its lower user base."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coconutmonkey 0 #5 November 2, 2010 So they have almost made tobacco illegal. They are pursuing alcohol again, next stop prohibition. Our cars and lifestyles are deemed too risky or they endanger the environment.... So what to these people want us to do? Sit in a bubble wrap room eating tofu? Hearts & Minds 2 to the Heart- 1 to the Mind- Home of the Coconut Lounge, Spa, & Artillery Range Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #7 November 2, 2010 Quotei saw this yesterday as well, what is suprising to me is they list cannabis as being more harmful than ketamine? really? ketamine is a feline euthanization drug, it was made too kill.... . Bullshit. Ketamine is a dissociative anesthetic, not a euthanasia drug. It is not only used in cats, but also many other animals including valuable horses and neonatal humans. The problems arise when dumbass junkies start abusing the stuff."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManagingPrime 0 #8 November 2, 2010 Today I'm feeling a bit inclined to agree that Alcohol is the most dangerous drug of all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #9 November 3, 2010 Wow ! Quite a few ? You need some diff friends,, smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #10 November 3, 2010 Quote i saw this yesterday as well, what is suprising to me is they list cannabis as being more harmful than ketamine? really? ketamine is a feline euthanization drug, it was made too kill.... +1 You hear about getting stuck in the K-hole, but not the M-Hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #11 November 3, 2010 Quote Quote i saw this yesterday as well, what is suprising to me is they list cannabis as being more harmful than ketamine? really? ketamine is a feline euthanization drug, it was made too kill.... +1 You hear about getting stuck in the K-hole, but not the M-Hole. Are either of those better than the P-Hole?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #12 November 3, 2010 Better than kicking a polar bear in the ice hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #13 November 3, 2010 Quote Better than kicking a polar bear in the ice hole. I always wondered if they had a corn hole - since there is no corn there.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #14 November 4, 2010 Not news to me - I have long felt that alcohol had a greater negative impact on society than any other drug. Of course, that may be because alcohol is legal, and therefore consumed by more people, more often. Make a drug like opium legal again, and watch alcohol take a backseat.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #15 November 10, 2010 Quote Quote i saw this yesterday as well, what is suprising to me is they list cannabis as being more harmful than ketamine? really? ketamine is a feline euthanization drug, it was made too kill.... . Bullshit. Ketamine is a dissociative anesthetic, not a euthanasia drug. It is not only used in cats, but also many other animals including valuable horses and neonatal humans. The problems arise when dumbass junkies start abusing the stuff. ketamine can be a great social drug; if you get invited over to three- or moresomes over it with really hot chicks! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyflower_bloom 0 #16 November 10, 2010 Quote i saw this yesterday as well, what is suprising to me is they list cannabis as being more harmful than ketamine? really? ketamine is a feline euthanization drug, it was made too kill.... i personally know quite a few people who have overdosed on ketamine, never met anyone that overdosed on cannabis. just really surprising to me they classified it that way. i don't think it is cannabis the plant, as more harmful than ketamine, a synthetic. rather, i think it is the fact that smoking *anything* is not ideal health-wise (not sure if they accounted for financial/prison costs in "harm to society" category, but obviously no one is going to rob a store for weed money, it would just be possession or distribution.. which, imho, is a waste of jail space and resources and a human rights abuse) ah victimless crime... i believe if they took edibles, herbal preparations, vaporized, or even water pipes into consideration of cannabis, the "harms" of cannabis would drastically decrease, in rel to ket as well in general. have to read the information more closely or request more data to know for sure i guess.. ketamine is fairly middle of the road to benign but not something one would want to mess around with carelessly.. ketamine is simply the only drug that has both disassociative-anesthetic properties, as well as psychedelic/entheogenic properties, that can be considered addictive, or "more-ish." (though other straight disassociatives like DXM and PCP can indeed be addicting, ketamine is unique as many do also class it as psychedelic, and most psychedelics are by definition not addicting) hence that is the one problem with it.. but as far as i know it was not made to kill felines, only to sedate them? an overdose or k-hole will simply anesthetize you, knock you into your own world (have never been there, just a topic i have done much research on in my past, a lil rusty lately) i think it would have to be very intentional or reckless to take enough to cause cessation of breathing or brain damage- i think you would just pass out and wake up. of course there are risks, not advocating it to anyone!! but i don't think it is intended to kill any animal and most over-estimation of dosing simply puts someone in their own little world for awhile, disassociation/internal trip. again i am a bit behind on my knowledge of drug policy atm though. (btw responding to multiple posts not just the one i hit reply to) anyways, heroin is remarkably safe.. the dangers are: arrest (simply because it is illegal, so that doesn't even count), overdose (due to impurities/unknown source and dose/having to use alone or hide where you are/impediments and roadblocks to obtaining the proper narcan/naloxone to reverse such a situation-- again due to legal status), sharing of needles (both legal status, and culture contribute- i.e. HIV and hep b/c), and of course addiction. But there is a line between addiction and dependence, and methadone programs and Swiss and Canada (I believe) trial programs with heroin instead of methadone, both opioids acting on same receptors, found increase in functioning in all domains and better physical and mental health, social responsibility, etc. once stable with a regular and legal source of medication. btw never k-holed or seen it happen, like i said i just like for my DARE generation to spread real facts. erowid is an awesome resource if you are interested in some of the myths you may have been told as a child and some intriguing "trip report" first hand stories too.. as to heroin-- besides perhaps constipation and pinned eyes, one could use opiates every day and have no organ damage, some people do live functional lives like this, though addiction and accessibility, legal status, obviously make the crucial determination as to outcome etc. alcohol and tobacco can cause very clear damage to the body very quickly ALONG with the addiction risk- and legality doesn't hardly play into it!! someone i know always found it easier to buy weed than cigs because if a drug is illegal, how on earth do you expect age limits enforced!? ironic, ain't it? (i never smoked cigs either, still adjusting to the fact that many at the dz do but occasionally would try to get some for a buddy) what a skewed world we live in.. /rant. glad to have gotten past my crazier days, but this is a serious cultural and academic interest of mine, without having to imbibe to compare effects blue ones, R"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyflower_bloom 0 #17 November 10, 2010 Quote Quote ...Ketamine is a dissociative anesthetic, not a euthanasia drug. It is not only used in cats, but also many other animals including valuable horses and neonatal humans. The problems arise when dumbass junkies start abusing the stuff. ketamine can be a great social drug; if you get invited over to three- or moresomes over it with really hot chicks! that could be very very bizarre.. wow.. you'd be stumbling all over each other, how'd you even get undressed? haha.. (and to the post prior to yours--> +1) USE vs. ABUSE it is unique in its addictive properties, but MAPS has actually funded some studies on utilizing it for humans unrelated medical conditions, as well as overcoming other addictions and depression! promising so far... Quote ...So what to these people want us to do? Sit in a bubble wrap room eating tofu? hey there just a sec.. i happen to like tofu, but it doesn't stop me from living it up and generally making the most of every day i am blessed with! tofu is a good protein source to keep you going for a long day of jumping and post-jump shenanigans! if we ever cross paths i promise i will make you a tofu dish you will like.. it just gets a bad rap due to cultural connotations. Quote This is a useful approach for a public health study because you would want to put enforcement/education/treatment dollars where they do the most good for the largest number of people. It is not a good approach for stating the conclusion that ketamine is not as bad as cannabis. Ketamine may be more harmful to its actual users but less important as a public health priority because of its lower user base. Good point made."You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #18 November 10, 2010 well, to be honest, it was a STRANGE night.. but a fun one, nonetheless! anyway, i'd never try it again.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
