Downsize

[Stealth 0]

Friend of mine becomes completely insane about downsizing.
Now, at 270 jumps total, about 80-90 per year, he is going to downsize to 135 elliptical which puts him under 1,5 WL !
He was jumping 150 sqft 7cell square before, at 1,35WL and made about 200 jumps on it.
All of his landing was ok but not very impressive.
He was trying 135 and tell me that 135 did't scare him at all.
He says "if you have brains in your head and going to be careful everything will be ok!"
He is going to "learn" 270 degrees turn for swoop.

I'm in desperation to stop him.....
Help me to find any words to make him to change his mind.

[AggieDave 6]

Alright, this topic has been covered more then once.

YOU cannot stop him. Your S&TA can, though. Go talk to him, the head instructor and the DZO about your friend.

Beyond that, if he still won't listen, it might just take him breaking an akle or something to wake up and understand, hopefully it will only be that.


In the mean time, feel free to use the search function and read the other suggests about this exact same situation from past people as well.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[piisfish 140]

does he need to be scared ??

has he already performed 270's with his 150 ??

did he already read billvon's downsizing article ?? If not, show it to him, or print it for him.

Hoping he gets out fine by doing what he wants...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[JohnMitchell 16]

Who's some of your S&TA's or best swoopers at the DZ. Maybe they can train/rein/talk some sense into your friend. If not, let's hope he's lucky.

[teason 0]

As I posted in a previous thread;

To steal from Mark Twain, "teaching a 100 jump wonder about wingloading safety is like teaching a pig to sing. In the end you're wasting your time and annoying the pig"

lol

I love that quote!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[murps2000 86]

You can tell the S&TA, the DZO, the head instructor, and whomever else you think may prevent him from jumping the canopy, but that will likely only be a temporary fix. He can go somewhere else, lie about his experience, or lie about what his canopy size is, and get around it.
His mentality is similar to many in the sport these days, and there is little you can do about that. I attribute it, in part, to the impatience cultivated by the "on demand world". People want to swoop, NOW. So they get the hot canopy. But you can't double click on the skills you need. You can attend a canopy course, and it helps, but mostly you must practice.
If your friend reads these forums, perhaps you could direct him to this one:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1250804

If that doesn't help, just wish him good luck and godspeed.

[bob.dino 1]

AggieDave's suggestion is good (as usual).

You might try getting him a copy of "The Parachute and Its Pilot" from Brian Germain. Write inside the cover "Dear X: I don't want to have to explain your death to your family. Love, Y."

Best of luck in keeping your mate alive.

[Scrumpot 1]

What is it all of a sudden again with the rash of "I wanna downsize NOW ...I know everyone is saying it's stupid, or recommending against it etc., etc., but I'm gonna do it ANYWAYS!" that seems to recently be going on around here again?

It seems that every 6 months we go through this.
Interestingly enough too, it seems to also follow, a corresponding cyclical lag to this as well in the incidents forum.

I for one, am growing extremely exasperated with all this! Puh-leeze people, there is PLENTY of documentation, cause-'n-effect evidence and indeed well worn "history" of this, even just right here in these forums! Do you all think that somehow you are more "special" or really all that "better" than the scores who have (and not all that long ago either ...we are not comparing ancient history here against an entirely different paradigm) come, and LEARNED (the hard way) before you??

ARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[teason 0]

Quote

I attribute it, in part, to the impatience cultivated by the "on demand world".

I attribute it to F**knuts who like to brag about how small thier canopy is. I never had a problem at my DZ until an asshat with a 1000+ jumps and a Stilletto 135 started making fun of everyone with a bigger canopy. His constant ridicule of larger canopies is what fuels our problem. Last spring he told a 185lbs guy with 60 jumps he should get a 150 or he'll be bored! And then started bragging about how small a caopy he has.

Buttwads like that is what makes S&TAs jobs so hard!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[TheAnvil 0]

To follow onto AggieDave's advice, I would ALSO ask the S&TA to give all the S&TA's from other DZ's in the area that this fellow might be coming to jump a canopy he's not ready for. The DZO at a DZ in Cali stopped a young jumper I knew from jumping a canopy he wasn't ready for - the fellow went to the DZO that sold him the canopy in the first place and jumped there. Four jumps later he was enroute the hospital where he later died.

Have some instructors and experienced people this guy respects talk to him as well. If he kills himself he's not just hurting himself - it's his family, friends, and the sport as well.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[skyhighkiy 0]

I have a buddy that's in an identical situation.

I asked him why he plans on downsizing.

My buddy had an ego problem. He wanted to downsize so he could brag about his canopy, so he could get"morespeed" out of his landings. when he was barely pulling out 180's on risers.

if the problem is ego with your buddy, and he just absolutely will not listen to anyone, use his ego against him.

Example: "Why are you downsizing anyway? I've seen a guy on your canopy and your wingloading out-swoop a guy with X wingloading and X canopy...are you downsizing to compensate for your lack of skill on your canopy?"

"it's not what you say, it's how you say it"

I don't know about you, but I think a guy that can swoop a conservative canopy in total control and awesome form, is far more impressive than a hot-shot barely burning it in under something he obviously can't handle.

BE THE BUDDHA!

[yoink 321]

I'm impressed...

(given some of the posts you made a few months ago)

Nice one.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Quote

I'm impressed...(given some of the posts you made a few months ago)

Nice one.

Agreed. It's absolutely fascinating how some people can change their entire outlook after spending some time seeing people fuck up and reading about it on here over and over and over.

[upndownshop 0]

Give him a Death Certificate completely filled out with his name on it, just leave the date blank or ??

[bob.dino 1]

I agree. Though I'd guess that reading The Parachute and Its Pilot had a massive effect on the lad too. That was when he seemed to change, almost overnight.

I think he owes Brian a fifth for the save .

[skyhighkiy 0]

hey, all I know is there's no way in hell you guys are going to pin this hi-jack off on me

BE THE BUDDHA!

[DocPop 1]

Quote

Friend of mine becomes completely insane about downsizing.
Now, at 270 jumps total, about 80-90 per year, he is going to downsize to 135 elliptical which puts him under 1,5 WL !
He was jumping 150 sqft 7cell square before, at 1,35WL and made about 200 jumps on it.
All of his landing was ok but not very impressive.
He was trying 135 and tell me that 135 did't scare him at all.
He says "if you have brains in your head and going to be careful everything will be ok!"
He is going to "learn" 270 degrees turn for swoop.

I'm in desperation to stop him.....
Help me to find any words to make him to change his mind.

6 years on now.

Did he die or get injured?

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[mx19 0]

Why do you want to know? Is it so there's a chance you might get rid of that nagging worry feeling in the back of your head about flying a canopy that you really shouldn't be by hoping that someone else got away with it so you'll be fine?

[DocPop 1]

Quote

Why do you want to know? Is it so there's a chance you might get rid of that nagging worry feeling in the back of your head about flying a canopy that you really shouldn't be by hoping that someone else got away with it so you'll be fine?

Exactly

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[jsaxton 0]

Ask him if you can be on his ash dive.

[Stealth 0]

No. He get out of this sport and prefer moto. He is alive and he was not injuired.
But there is still no reasons to downsize like my friend. It is stil very dangerous.
Downsize like this not nesseserily kill you, but you will have the chance.

[DocPop 1]

Thanks for the update.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[format 1]

Quote

I don't know about you, but I think a guy that can swoop a conservative canopy in total control and awesome form, is far more impressive than a hot-shot barely burning it in under something he obviously can't handle.

One of my fascinations is a guy who swooped Navigator 240 in High Performance manner

Nobody is impressed with clueless pilots, never mind the footage
I'm talking square feet here and HP landings, not jump numbers

What goes around, comes later.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

One of my fascinations is a guy who swooped Navigator 240 in High Performance manner

If it is the video I'm thinking of, that was Scott Miller showing that it could be done and done well to prove a point to some folks in his canopy control class. He was a competitive swooper, a canopy coach and worked as a test jumper for PD, but burned out on the sport and is now doing something completely different.

Scott Miller's teaching had a significant positive influence on hundreds of jumpers across the country!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[tkhayes 348]

see the article "Skills Checklist for Downsizing Canopies"