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AndyMan 7
Quote...I really hate it when people say this.
You don't have to like it, but - at this point in your skydiving career, if you don't believe it, you're not being honest with yourself.
The obvious examples are collisions, so I don't know why you're intentionally ignoring these. Don't forget there's also a pretty extensive list of people who've died after malfunctions, even when they did everything right.
We teach people a simple set of emergency procedures for two reasons. 1) They're the best we've got. 2) They work most of the time. But, "most of the time" is not "every time". Sometimes they don't work. Sometimes you perform exactly as trained, do the best you can, and it just gets worse.
QuoteIf I do EVERYTHING right, I will not die.
I used to know some people who thought this. They are dead.
_Am
__
You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.
You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.
QuoteQuote...I really hate it when people say this.
You don't have to like it, but - at this point in your skydiving career, if you don't believe it, you're not being honest with yourself.
The obvious examples are collisions, so I don't know why you're intentionally ignoring these. Don't forget there's also a pretty extensive list of people who've died after malfunctions, even when they did everything right.
We teach people a simple set of emergency procedures for two reasons. 1) They're the best we've got. 2) They work most of the time. But, "most of the time" is not "every time". Sometimes they don't work. Sometimes you perform exactly as trained, do the best you can, and it just gets worse.QuoteIf I do EVERYTHING right, I will not die.
I used to know some people who thought this. They are dead.
_Am
Haha, oh this is too good. So wait, from what you have gathered from this statement
"If I die from skydiving, I will be pissed because I could have avoided it. If I do EVERYTHING right, I will not die."
You believe I'm ignorant and reckless? Before you took that sentence out of context in the paragraph, you could read that I was taking full responsibility for my actions.
There are no guarantees in life. You could be driving down the street and someone could hit you or your brakes could fail.
1. Look through the fatality list, lets say in in 2007. In 2007, find me a person, in good health, that died after doing everything right...
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Pretty much the only time this is valid is if someone were to collide with you, but then I would still say you should have seen them coming and anticipated them hitting you by keeping your head on a swivel.
planes crash. weather can be (somewhat unpredictable), and humans make errors.
I think you can control about half the risk with choices you make.
Quote
1. Look through the fatality list, lets say in in 2007. In 2007, find me a person, in good health, that died after doing everything right...
why the good health clause? That's another example of items beyond your control. The guy that died in 2007 from a stroke - you can't tell when those are coming. And marathoners die of heart attacks.
QuoteQuote
1. Look through the fatality list, lets say in in 2007. In 2007, find me a person, in good health, that died after doing everything right...
why the good health clause? That's another example of items beyond your control. The guy that died in 2007 from a stroke - you can't tell when those are coming. And marathoners die of heart attacks.
You are starting to stretch. Because I'm 27; I'm not in the age range where health issues are a concern, plus I eat right and exercise. Also, don't compare apples-to-oranges by comparing a strenuous activity like running 26 miles, to skydiving.
If I look through 2007, I see that I don't fly a wingsuit, I don't do CRW, I don't swoop, I have an AAD and an RSL, I'm in great health...
Andy9o8 2
QuoteIf I do EVERYTHING right, I will not die.
Absolutely wrong. There are random factors that you simply cannot adequately control. You're still in the same state of denial that I pointed out to you in post #96.
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You are starting to stretch. Because I'm 27; I'm not in the age range where health issues are a concern, plus I eat right and exercise. Also, don't compare apples-to-oranges by comparing a strenuous activity like running 26 miles, to skydiving.
If I look through 2007, I see that I don't fly a wingsuit, I don't do CRW, I don't swoop, I have an AAD and an RSL, I'm in great health...
You objected to a general comment on the safety of the sport, so your age isn't relevant. Not everyone is 27, and very soon you won't be either. I think you underestimate the health risks even at your age.
You also glossed over the risk of those two collisions in 2007. 4 people died there. You can't guarantee that you won't get tagged if someone else makes an error. You can't even guarantee you won't. People make errors. Esp on hot sunny days.
On the motorcycle scene, some like to say 'presume every car out there is trying to kill you.' Sounds good, but taken literally, you could never ride in any level of traffic. You're always trying to take the best available option, but that's not the path that guarantees nothing bad will happen. The path only exists in your garage.
billvon 3,058
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>Because I'm 27; I'm not in the age range where health issues are a concern . . .
I knew a healthy fairly young woman who died due to a hard opening. She had an undiagnosed connective tissue disease that made her circulatory system weaker. I think it was 2005 tho.
>If I do EVERYTHING right, I will not die.
You could have a double mal and die. Your AAD could misfire and you could die. A slink could break at 200 feet and you could die. A dust devil could hit you at 200 feet and you could die. You could die in a plane crash, a collision with another jumper or a collision with a bird.
While skydiving is relatively safe compared to, say, driving drunk, it is by no means safe.
I knew a healthy fairly young woman who died due to a hard opening. She had an undiagnosed connective tissue disease that made her circulatory system weaker. I think it was 2005 tho.
>If I do EVERYTHING right, I will not die.
You could have a double mal and die. Your AAD could misfire and you could die. A slink could break at 200 feet and you could die. A dust devil could hit you at 200 feet and you could die. You could die in a plane crash, a collision with another jumper or a collision with a bird.
While skydiving is relatively safe compared to, say, driving drunk, it is by no means safe.
kkeenan 14
QuoteIf I do EVERYTHING right, I will not die.
Even with your relative inexperience and young age, you should realize that, in the long run, very few absolute statements turn out to be true. It seems that you are bothered by the possibility that something or someone outside of your control can cause your flawless ass to be killed while skydiving. It's really not a matter of opinion. Anyone who has been around long enough can point out several instances of this.
If you want to tell your Mom that you will never get hurt because you always do everything right, that's fine. But if you truly believe that, then you are a fool.
Kevin Keenan
_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?
wmw999 2,515
With all that you have minimized some of the risks. Some of them have been minimized to the point of negligibility. But none of them have been eliminated completely, simply because they are inherent risks of skydiving.QuoteIf I look through 2007, I see that I don't fly a wingsuit, I don't do CRW, I don't swoop, I have an AAD and an RSL, I'm in great health...
But they've been minimized way down. And if you look at trends in fatalities reports, you can minimize more of them.
No matter what, you will die. Chances are, it won't be from skydiving. But the more you actively remember and manage your risks, rather than figuring that you've eliminated them, the better off you are.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
QuoteWith all that you have minimized some of the risks. Some of them have been minimized to the point of negligibility. But none of them have been eliminated completely, simply because they are inherent risks of skydiving.QuoteIf I look through 2007, I see that I don't fly a wingsuit, I don't do CRW, I don't swoop, I have an AAD and an RSL, I'm in great health...
But they've been minimized way down. And if you look at trends in fatalities reports, you can minimize more of them.
No matter what, you will die. Chances are, it won't be from skydiving. But the more you actively remember and manage your risks, rather than figuring that you've eliminated them, the better off you are.
Wendy P.
I completely agree with you; well put.
Yes, everyone will die and there are no certainties. With skydiving, risks can be minimized to insignificance. Example: if you have a correctly routed chest strap, what are the chances that it will come undone and you will fall out of your harness? The percentage is insignificant.
Skydiving is not safe, but it can be practiced safely.
"Holy s*** that was f***in' cold!"
"Holy s*** that was f***in' cold!"
377 22
Skydiving is risky, but there are a few things you can do to lower your risk.
Just doing conservative non swoop landings away from the crowd can improve your odds hugely.
I land like a 747 and I'll gladly land out if the LZ looks too crowded, like during a big boogie with multiple loads landing at once.
I could still die skydiving, but I try to look at the stats and avoid the optional behaviors that result in injuries and fatalities.
We all have to exit an aircraft to skydive, but we don't all have to do hook turn landings.
377
Just doing conservative non swoop landings away from the crowd can improve your odds hugely.
I land like a 747 and I'll gladly land out if the LZ looks too crowded, like during a big boogie with multiple loads landing at once.
I could still die skydiving, but I try to look at the stats and avoid the optional behaviors that result in injuries and fatalities.
We all have to exit an aircraft to skydive, but we don't all have to do hook turn landings.
377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.
Agree.
I think my problem with statements like "you can do everything right and still die" comes off as giving more weight to negligible variables. In my opinion, If you are really doing EVERYTHING right, then the chances of death would be negligible. Unfortunately, humans are not perfect and don't always do everything right
Example: Landing in a busy LZ, when landing 50 yards to the side would likely minimize the risk of a canopy collision to a insignificant value.
I think my problem with statements like "you can do everything right and still die" comes off as giving more weight to negligible variables. In my opinion, If you are really doing EVERYTHING right, then the chances of death would be negligible. Unfortunately, humans are not perfect and don't always do everything right
Example: Landing in a busy LZ, when landing 50 yards to the side would likely minimize the risk of a canopy collision to a insignificant value.
labrys 0
QuoteIf I do EVERYTHING right, I will not die.
If I never accidentally run a stop sign or red light, I minimize my risk of having a MVA. If I never get distracted and turn into an intersection without checking traffic I also minimize that risk..
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
The thing is that.... EVERY experienced driver has made those mistakes. Most of the time those mistakes result in the passenger yelling "stop, dude.... red light" or the driver realizing they just fucked up, or another driver blaring a horn to focus your attention....right?
If you've NEVER made a mistake driving a vehicle, you will. If you think you'll NEVER make a mistake skydiving you're naive. Focus more on realizing and preparing that you WILL fuck up and be prepared to be dynamic.
Owned by Remi #?
QuoteQuoteIf you think you'll NEVER make a mistake skydiving you're naive. Focus more on realizing and preparing that you WILL fuck up and be prepared to be dynamic.
Great advice. Is this directed at me?
QuoteExample: if you have a correctly routed chest strap, what are the chances that it will come undone and you will fall out of your harness? The percentage is insignificant.
Which is why the question really is, what are the chances you'll screw up the chest strap routing? Our buddies occasionally catch us making this mistake and allow us to correct.
Landing just off is a funny one - at Elsinore you get loads where everyone takes that same step for safety, thus negating the gain and making it better to land in the main grass.
QuoteWhich is why the question really is, what are the chances you'll screw up the chest strap routing?
None. Dude, are still on here? Go away. Every time you open your mouth, you pull the most random far-stretched BS out of the air that is completely irrelevant.
labrys 0
QuoteGreat advice. Is this directed at me?
Yes and no... It's directed at me and you and anyone else and everyone else. You didn't post anything that was a direct link if that's what you're asking.
Owned by Remi #?
labrys 0
QuoteNone. Dude, are still on here? Go away. Every time you open your mouth, you pull the most random far-stretched BS out of the air that is completely irrelevant.
Uh huh.... it's kinda like he suggested people occasionally fuck up by accident. We all know that NEVER happens, eh? No one EVER misroutes a chest strap. No one EVER forgets leg straps. No one EVER forgets to don a rig. No one EVER busts a stop sign..... No one ever makes a mistake....
Owned by Remi #?
QuoteQuoteWhich is why the question really is, what are the chances you'll screw up the chest strap routing?
None. Dude, are still on here? Go away. Every time you open your mouth, you pull the most random far-stretched BS out of the air that is completely irrelevant.
Well, it's clear you're never going to get it, but others still read this stuff. If you think the chances of you making an error are none, you're deluding yourself. A great example is load one on Saturday or Sunday morning at a big boogie.
Talk about far stretched BS pulled out of thin air:
QuoteExample: Landing in a busy LZ, when landing 50 yards to the side would likely minimize the risk of a canopy collision to a insignificant value.
...I really hate it when people say this.
Pretty much the only time this is valid is if someone were to collide with you, but then I would still say you should have seen them coming and anticipated them hitting you by keeping your head on a swivel.
If I die from skydiving, I will be pissed because I could have avoided it. If I do EVERYTHING right, I will not die.
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