blondeskydiver 0 #76 September 15, 2010 QuoteQuote10k jumps or coach jumps? I think someone with 100 jumps WOULD be as good of a coach - they were JUST there and they remember the fears. 10k jumps are sometimes too removed. Well, we will just have to disagree. ------------------ Agreed to disagree :-) I will, however, keep your words in the back of my mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brucet7 0 #77 September 15, 2010 I believe that is the exact reason a teacher starts out as a student teacher. Watch the teacher, teach one or two parts of the lesson, grade a set of papers, etc. Then after a time as a student teacher one gets to be a teacher. Coach = student teacher. Instructor = teacher.POPS #10623; SOS #1672 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brettski74 0 #78 September 16, 2010 QuoteCoach = student teacher. Instructor = teacher. In skydiving, a coach teaches recreational skills (eg. levels, proximity, tracking). An instructor teaches lifesaving skills (eg. AFF, deployment, emergency procedures). At least that's how the distinction breaks down here in Canada. A certified coach should be a teacher in their own right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #79 September 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteIt takes years of training to become a 1st grade teacher or a 6th grade teacher or a high school teacher. It's absurd to think a 3 day coach course imparts much in the way of pedagogical skills. Even to suggest that it could is absurd. Gotta start somewhere. Absolutely, but anyone who thinks they become a teacher by taking a weekend course is only fooling himself (or herself).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #80 September 16, 2010 QuoteAbsolutely, but anyone who thinks they become a teacher by taking a weekend course is only fooling himself (or herself). Probably a good thing the weekend courses are producing coaches instead of teachers then, huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brucet7 0 #81 September 16, 2010 The three day coaches' course is not all that goes into learning to be a coach. Jumps (whether enough are done or not is the real question), information gleaned from talking to other jumpers, actually reading the SIMs, and the Ratings Manual. Attending the FJC as a jumper and learning to teach part of that before the course, those are the things that make up a coach course. The attitude of "Three days ago I couldn't spell coach and today I are one" is a fool's attitude. And to think of ourselves as instructors or teachers with just a coach course and >100 jumps is fooling ourselves as well. We are learners helping learners apply the lessons our instructors have taught us both.POPS #10623; SOS #1672 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SethInMI 174 #82 September 16, 2010 I will throw my 2c in, on cameras and coaching. When I was a student doing instructional jumps and coach jumps, I really liked the video debrief. I would specifically search out ratings-holders who flew camera to jump with me. I felt at $60-70 a jump, a video debrief and a rip on to my laptop as a souvenir was not too much to ask. So at the time I remember telling myself, when I am coaching, I will video my students. I think if you are going to get paid to coach, it would be something to consider. If you are coach jumping for fun or to pay it forward, well, the student gets what they paid for.It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #83 September 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteAbsolutely, but anyone who thinks they become a teacher by taking a weekend course is only fooling himself (or herself). Probably a good thing the weekend courses are producing coaches instead of teachers then, huh? I could have sworn that a coach can teach the general sections of the FJC.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #84 September 16, 2010 QuoteI could have sworn that a coach can teach the general sections of the FJC. Little League baseball coaches can teach hitting and catching and pitching. Does that make them teachers? Or are they coaches? If there is a serious lack in the amount of pedagogical training that USPA coaches are receiving, wouldn't it be neato if some jumpers with experience in education who think that a lack exists stepped up and offered to make the program better? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #85 September 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteI could have sworn that a coach can teach the general sections of the FJC. Little League baseball coaches can teach hitting and catching and pitching. Does that make them teachers? Or are they coaches? If there is a serious lack in the amount of pedagogical training that USPA coaches are receiving, wouldn't it be neato if some jumpers with experience in education who think that a lack exists stepped up and offered to make the program better? Well, that would require some acknowledgment by the skydiving community that those with real experience in education actually know how to teach. Previous threads have shown that the opposite is the case. Interestingly, candidates to be FAA "Certificated Flight Instructors", or CFIs, who are professional educators are exempted from the pedagogical requirement of that rating.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChrisRomp 0 #86 September 17, 2010 OT: It cracks me up that the Google ads on this thread have switched (for me) to "life coaching" ads. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #87 September 17, 2010 QuoteWell, that would require some acknowledgment by the skydiving community that those with real experience in education actually know how to teach. Previous threads have shown that the opposite is the case. If those who post here were the entire skydiving community, you'd have a good point. But we're not. We're just the ones with loud keyboards and too much time on our hands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jsaxton 0 #88 September 17, 2010 Ron, come to Lodi, $10 jumps every Sunday! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #89 September 18, 2010 Quote Ron, come to Lodi, $10 jumps every Sunday! Yeah, but the 400 dollar plane ticket from FL would not exactly save me money in the long run"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jsaxton 0 #90 September 18, 2010 you going to do POPS this year? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #91 September 18, 2010 No, not 40..."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
brucet7 0 #77 September 15, 2010 I believe that is the exact reason a teacher starts out as a student teacher. Watch the teacher, teach one or two parts of the lesson, grade a set of papers, etc. Then after a time as a student teacher one gets to be a teacher. Coach = student teacher. Instructor = teacher.POPS #10623; SOS #1672 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #78 September 16, 2010 QuoteCoach = student teacher. Instructor = teacher. In skydiving, a coach teaches recreational skills (eg. levels, proximity, tracking). An instructor teaches lifesaving skills (eg. AFF, deployment, emergency procedures). At least that's how the distinction breaks down here in Canada. A certified coach should be a teacher in their own right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #79 September 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteIt takes years of training to become a 1st grade teacher or a 6th grade teacher or a high school teacher. It's absurd to think a 3 day coach course imparts much in the way of pedagogical skills. Even to suggest that it could is absurd. Gotta start somewhere. Absolutely, but anyone who thinks they become a teacher by taking a weekend course is only fooling himself (or herself).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #80 September 16, 2010 QuoteAbsolutely, but anyone who thinks they become a teacher by taking a weekend course is only fooling himself (or herself). Probably a good thing the weekend courses are producing coaches instead of teachers then, huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brucet7 0 #81 September 16, 2010 The three day coaches' course is not all that goes into learning to be a coach. Jumps (whether enough are done or not is the real question), information gleaned from talking to other jumpers, actually reading the SIMs, and the Ratings Manual. Attending the FJC as a jumper and learning to teach part of that before the course, those are the things that make up a coach course. The attitude of "Three days ago I couldn't spell coach and today I are one" is a fool's attitude. And to think of ourselves as instructors or teachers with just a coach course and >100 jumps is fooling ourselves as well. We are learners helping learners apply the lessons our instructors have taught us both.POPS #10623; SOS #1672 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SethInMI 174 #82 September 16, 2010 I will throw my 2c in, on cameras and coaching. When I was a student doing instructional jumps and coach jumps, I really liked the video debrief. I would specifically search out ratings-holders who flew camera to jump with me. I felt at $60-70 a jump, a video debrief and a rip on to my laptop as a souvenir was not too much to ask. So at the time I remember telling myself, when I am coaching, I will video my students. I think if you are going to get paid to coach, it would be something to consider. If you are coach jumping for fun or to pay it forward, well, the student gets what they paid for.It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #83 September 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteAbsolutely, but anyone who thinks they become a teacher by taking a weekend course is only fooling himself (or herself). Probably a good thing the weekend courses are producing coaches instead of teachers then, huh? I could have sworn that a coach can teach the general sections of the FJC.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #84 September 16, 2010 QuoteI could have sworn that a coach can teach the general sections of the FJC. Little League baseball coaches can teach hitting and catching and pitching. Does that make them teachers? Or are they coaches? If there is a serious lack in the amount of pedagogical training that USPA coaches are receiving, wouldn't it be neato if some jumpers with experience in education who think that a lack exists stepped up and offered to make the program better? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #85 September 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteI could have sworn that a coach can teach the general sections of the FJC. Little League baseball coaches can teach hitting and catching and pitching. Does that make them teachers? Or are they coaches? If there is a serious lack in the amount of pedagogical training that USPA coaches are receiving, wouldn't it be neato if some jumpers with experience in education who think that a lack exists stepped up and offered to make the program better? Well, that would require some acknowledgment by the skydiving community that those with real experience in education actually know how to teach. Previous threads have shown that the opposite is the case. Interestingly, candidates to be FAA "Certificated Flight Instructors", or CFIs, who are professional educators are exempted from the pedagogical requirement of that rating.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRomp 0 #86 September 17, 2010 OT: It cracks me up that the Google ads on this thread have switched (for me) to "life coaching" ads. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #87 September 17, 2010 QuoteWell, that would require some acknowledgment by the skydiving community that those with real experience in education actually know how to teach. Previous threads have shown that the opposite is the case. If those who post here were the entire skydiving community, you'd have a good point. But we're not. We're just the ones with loud keyboards and too much time on our hands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #88 September 17, 2010 Ron, come to Lodi, $10 jumps every Sunday! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #89 September 18, 2010 Quote Ron, come to Lodi, $10 jumps every Sunday! Yeah, but the 400 dollar plane ticket from FL would not exactly save me money in the long run"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #90 September 18, 2010 you going to do POPS this year? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #91 September 18, 2010 No, not 40..."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
