mariobat 0 #1 September 1, 2010 Hi everibody, About PD Canopy's glide angles, could you help me to find a list or tu put in order from the more flat to less flat? Thanks and Blue Skyes Mariobat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #2 September 1, 2010 Stiletto and Pulse fly more flat than the rest. Katana and the Velocity are groundhungry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mariobat 0 #3 September 1, 2010 QuoteStiletto and Pulse fly more flat .[/ Thanks, so they are "landings friendly" too?! More than Sabre2 i.e.? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #4 September 1, 2010 QuoteStiletto and Pulse fly more flat than the rest. Katana and the Velocity are groundhungry. Ground hungry is one of those terms that I really have problems with (Thick, I know) .... WTF does it actually mean? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jurgencamps 0 #5 September 1, 2010 Pulse: yes I would not recommend the Stiletto for you. It is not a bad canopy, but I think that you need a different tool. So if you need an easy to land canopy that flies flat, the pulse will do the job very well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jurgencamps 0 #6 September 1, 2010 That they fly very steep. I full flight they will go down much faster than other (not so ground hungry) canopies. With my Velocity (WL 2,3) I do not need to spiral to go down and land first. I just let it fly in that case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mariobat 0 #7 September 1, 2010 Actually I'm using a Spectre (WL 1,4), before Spectre I ave use a Sabre2 and now I'm thinking to buy a Storm...it could have more lift in landings like Sabre2...is tris right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jurgencamps 0 #8 September 1, 2010 I have a storm 120 for wingsuiting (and a velo 90). But I have also jumped a sabre 2 (50 jumps). The storm is nice canopy, with more lift than the spectre, but the Sabre 2 has more lift than the storm. Have you already read this? http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/StormCFStormFAQFlightCharacteristics.PDF, http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Sabre2-Flight.pdf, http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Pulse_Flight_Characteristics.PDF What are you looking for? If you do not need a spectre or a storm for something special (like wingsuiting, jumping with a heavy stuff on your head, casual CF...), you are better of with the pulse or sabre 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mariobat 0 #9 September 1, 2010 Quote Have you already read this? http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/StormCFStormFAQFlightCharacteristics.PDF, http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Sabre2-Flight.pdf, http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Pulse_Flight_Characteristics.PDF Yes, I have read it, but a Storm seems not far from Sabre2 for lift on landings and predictable caracteristics bur better for on head openings! Are you agree? Thanks for your precious experience.... What are you looking for? If you do not need a spectre or a storm for something special (like wingsuiting, jumping with a heavy stuff on your head, casual CF...), you are better of with the pulse or sabre 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #10 September 1, 2010 >Thanks, so they are "landings friendly" too? The steepness of trim of a canopy does not make it "landings friendly;" only the pilot can do that. Katanas are trimmed a lot steeper; Stilettos a lot shallower. If you are jumping the same size of both and you don't flare, you will hit the ground going a lot faster under a Katana. Katanas have more speed during the flare, so they have more energy to work with. So if you flare them correctly you have more energy to do things like change your direction in the flare etc. Stilettos are flatter, so they need less direction change to get them to start to flare. Thus they can get you leveled out sooner. Both canopies, if chosen appropriately for your weight and experience, will land you perfectly - right at stall speed with zero downward speed. To make that happen you have to fly it all the way down though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWPoul 1 #11 September 2, 2010 BTW You can change the glide angle;) For example a "ground hangry" Velocity can be flatten by rears and get you back to DZ from a long spot quite wellWhy drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crotalus01 0 #12 September 3, 2010 The PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio canopy they ever produced. It flies to the ground with a quickness. I did a jump with a Vengeance 170 (1.4 wl) where I opened at 14000', and landed before an A license holder who exited before me and opened at 5000'. And that was with very little spiraling on my part. My buddy I jumped with was flying a Niton 135 loaded at 1.5 and I left him in the dust at full flight... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DocPop 1 #13 September 3, 2010 QuoteThe PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio canopy they ever produced. Your info is out of date. According to PD.com, the vengeance has an aspect ratio of 2.72, whereas the Katana is 2.74."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,991 #14 September 3, 2010 >The PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio >canopy they ever produced. It flies to the ground with a quickness. That may be, but the two (AR and descent angle) are unrelated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wings-n-Things 0 #15 September 3, 2010 QuoteThe PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio canopy they ever produced. Are they still producing it?Card carrying member of the Nanny State Liberation Front Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jurgencamps 0 #16 September 4, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio canopy they ever produced. Are they still producing it? No Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #17 September 4, 2010 Quote>The PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio >canopy they ever produced. It flies to the ground with a quickness. That may be, but the two (AR and descent angle) are unrelated. Actually the AR will affect the descent angle, which we should start calling glide angle or lift-to-drag ratio. As the aspect ratio increases, the induced drag for a given amount of lift goes down, increasing the L/D ratio; flattening the glide angle. There are, of course, other factors, such as trim settings, parasitic drag (especially from extra suspension lines for increased AR) and airfoil design that affect the glide angle. But as a single factor, high AR wings are more efficient, and fly flatter, than boxy low aspect ratio wings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites thrillstalker 0 #18 September 7, 2010 The way I understand it, correct me if I am wrong, the steeper the glide angle the more flare power. With steeper glide angles you get more of a pendulum effect with your flare."Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wolfriverjoe 1,523 #19 September 7, 2010 QuoteThe way I understand it, correct me if I am wrong, the steeper the glide angle the more flare power. With steeper glide angles you get more of a pendulum effect with your flare. Yes, but that's not why. With a steeper glide angle you have more forward speed, and more energy. You convert that forward energy into lift during the flare."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites thrillstalker 0 #20 September 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe way I understand it, correct me if I am wrong, the steeper the glide angle the more flare power. With steeper glide angles you get more of a pendulum effect with your flare. Yes, but that's not why. With a steeper glide angle you have more forward speed, and more energy. You convert that forward energy into lift during the flare. thanks for the clarification."Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites erdnarob 1 #21 September 16, 2010 A canopy glide angle depends on several factors. According to John LeBlanc from PD, those factors are : the type of airfoil, the weight distribution (more weight on the front risers for instance) and what I call the pitch angle. Here is some pitch angles I have measured. What I call the pitch angle is the angle between the chord of the canopy and the horizontal line when flying toggles up. CANOPIES Pitch angle CANOPIES Pitch angle Crossfire 180 15.85 degrees Nitron 190 15.19 degrees Diablo 135 15.77 PD reserve 160 15.36 Firebolt 200 14.10 Sabre 2 170 15.34 Hurricane 170 15.58 Safire 134 15.14 Icarus 90 JVX 16.00 Samouraï 107 17.35 Icarus VX 96 16.39 Spectre 170 15.80 Katana 170 18.03 MAX Storm 170 16.66 Nitro 150 13.25 MIN Velocity 84 (experimental) 15.71 We can see that the Katana has the most important pitch angle while the Nitro had the weakest. Note: There is some little differences between different sizes of the same type of canopy.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckakers 425 #22 September 17, 2010 QuoteQuoteStiletto and Pulse fly more flat .[/ Thanks, so they are "landings friendly" too?! More than Sabre2 i.e.? dead guy alert.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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shropshire 0 #4 September 1, 2010 QuoteStiletto and Pulse fly more flat than the rest. Katana and the Velocity are groundhungry. Ground hungry is one of those terms that I really have problems with (Thick, I know) .... WTF does it actually mean? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #5 September 1, 2010 Pulse: yes I would not recommend the Stiletto for you. It is not a bad canopy, but I think that you need a different tool. So if you need an easy to land canopy that flies flat, the pulse will do the job very well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #6 September 1, 2010 That they fly very steep. I full flight they will go down much faster than other (not so ground hungry) canopies. With my Velocity (WL 2,3) I do not need to spiral to go down and land first. I just let it fly in that case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mariobat 0 #7 September 1, 2010 Actually I'm using a Spectre (WL 1,4), before Spectre I ave use a Sabre2 and now I'm thinking to buy a Storm...it could have more lift in landings like Sabre2...is tris right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #8 September 1, 2010 I have a storm 120 for wingsuiting (and a velo 90). But I have also jumped a sabre 2 (50 jumps). The storm is nice canopy, with more lift than the spectre, but the Sabre 2 has more lift than the storm. Have you already read this? http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/StormCFStormFAQFlightCharacteristics.PDF, http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Sabre2-Flight.pdf, http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Pulse_Flight_Characteristics.PDF What are you looking for? If you do not need a spectre or a storm for something special (like wingsuiting, jumping with a heavy stuff on your head, casual CF...), you are better of with the pulse or sabre 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mariobat 0 #9 September 1, 2010 Quote Have you already read this? http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/StormCFStormFAQFlightCharacteristics.PDF, http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Sabre2-Flight.pdf, http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Pulse_Flight_Characteristics.PDF Yes, I have read it, but a Storm seems not far from Sabre2 for lift on landings and predictable caracteristics bur better for on head openings! Are you agree? Thanks for your precious experience.... What are you looking for? If you do not need a spectre or a storm for something special (like wingsuiting, jumping with a heavy stuff on your head, casual CF...), you are better of with the pulse or sabre 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #10 September 1, 2010 >Thanks, so they are "landings friendly" too? The steepness of trim of a canopy does not make it "landings friendly;" only the pilot can do that. Katanas are trimmed a lot steeper; Stilettos a lot shallower. If you are jumping the same size of both and you don't flare, you will hit the ground going a lot faster under a Katana. Katanas have more speed during the flare, so they have more energy to work with. So if you flare them correctly you have more energy to do things like change your direction in the flare etc. Stilettos are flatter, so they need less direction change to get them to start to flare. Thus they can get you leveled out sooner. Both canopies, if chosen appropriately for your weight and experience, will land you perfectly - right at stall speed with zero downward speed. To make that happen you have to fly it all the way down though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #11 September 2, 2010 BTW You can change the glide angle;) For example a "ground hangry" Velocity can be flatten by rears and get you back to DZ from a long spot quite wellWhy drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #12 September 3, 2010 The PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio canopy they ever produced. It flies to the ground with a quickness. I did a jump with a Vengeance 170 (1.4 wl) where I opened at 14000', and landed before an A license holder who exited before me and opened at 5000'. And that was with very little spiraling on my part. My buddy I jumped with was flying a Niton 135 loaded at 1.5 and I left him in the dust at full flight... As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #13 September 3, 2010 QuoteThe PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio canopy they ever produced. Your info is out of date. According to PD.com, the vengeance has an aspect ratio of 2.72, whereas the Katana is 2.74."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #14 September 3, 2010 >The PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio >canopy they ever produced. It flies to the ground with a quickness. That may be, but the two (AR and descent angle) are unrelated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings-n-Things 0 #15 September 3, 2010 QuoteThe PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio canopy they ever produced. Are they still producing it?Card carrying member of the Nanny State Liberation Front Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jurgencamps 0 #16 September 4, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio canopy they ever produced. Are they still producing it? No Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #17 September 4, 2010 Quote>The PD Vengeance is (or so PD says) the highest aspect ratio >canopy they ever produced. It flies to the ground with a quickness. That may be, but the two (AR and descent angle) are unrelated. Actually the AR will affect the descent angle, which we should start calling glide angle or lift-to-drag ratio. As the aspect ratio increases, the induced drag for a given amount of lift goes down, increasing the L/D ratio; flattening the glide angle. There are, of course, other factors, such as trim settings, parasitic drag (especially from extra suspension lines for increased AR) and airfoil design that affect the glide angle. But as a single factor, high AR wings are more efficient, and fly flatter, than boxy low aspect ratio wings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillstalker 0 #18 September 7, 2010 The way I understand it, correct me if I am wrong, the steeper the glide angle the more flare power. With steeper glide angles you get more of a pendulum effect with your flare."Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #19 September 7, 2010 QuoteThe way I understand it, correct me if I am wrong, the steeper the glide angle the more flare power. With steeper glide angles you get more of a pendulum effect with your flare. Yes, but that's not why. With a steeper glide angle you have more forward speed, and more energy. You convert that forward energy into lift during the flare."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillstalker 0 #20 September 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe way I understand it, correct me if I am wrong, the steeper the glide angle the more flare power. With steeper glide angles you get more of a pendulum effect with your flare. Yes, but that's not why. With a steeper glide angle you have more forward speed, and more energy. You convert that forward energy into lift during the flare. thanks for the clarification."Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #21 September 16, 2010 A canopy glide angle depends on several factors. According to John LeBlanc from PD, those factors are : the type of airfoil, the weight distribution (more weight on the front risers for instance) and what I call the pitch angle. Here is some pitch angles I have measured. What I call the pitch angle is the angle between the chord of the canopy and the horizontal line when flying toggles up. CANOPIES Pitch angle CANOPIES Pitch angle Crossfire 180 15.85 degrees Nitron 190 15.19 degrees Diablo 135 15.77 PD reserve 160 15.36 Firebolt 200 14.10 Sabre 2 170 15.34 Hurricane 170 15.58 Safire 134 15.14 Icarus 90 JVX 16.00 Samouraï 107 17.35 Icarus VX 96 16.39 Spectre 170 15.80 Katana 170 18.03 MAX Storm 170 16.66 Nitro 150 13.25 MIN Velocity 84 (experimental) 15.71 We can see that the Katana has the most important pitch angle while the Nitro had the weakest. Note: There is some little differences between different sizes of the same type of canopy.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #22 September 17, 2010 QuoteQuoteStiletto and Pulse fly more flat .[/ Thanks, so they are "landings friendly" too?! More than Sabre2 i.e.? dead guy alert.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
