mjosparky 4 #151 August 1, 2006 Quote Give the Sabre 150 a try when the weather is good and if you like it have fun with it! This is not good advice coming from a jumper with several thousand jumps, but from someone with 100 jumps in 6 years it is way wrong. Not meant a slam on you, but you just don't have the knowledge to give such advice.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SWATcop 0 #152 August 7, 2006 Smaller is not always better. I have an exit weight of around 210. I have 30 jumps on a zero P fully elliptical 170 with no problems landing it at all. I upsized to a Sabre2 210 and love it.Kevin Muff Brother #4041 Team Dirty Sanchez #467 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #153 August 9, 2006 QuoteHave you noticed the trend that people that have been in the sport a long time with a decent amount of experience tend to say the same thing? Do you think it is because they don't want the newbie to grow and enjoy the sport, or could it be that they have seen too many people killed for very avoidable reasons. Maybe their years of experience has wisened them. Personally, I know a few people that have been in the sport a long time that still wonder how they survived the first 10 years in the sport and now preach a much safer method for newbies. Here is something else to consider - notice that the death rate tends to go up once off of student status and ego starts making your decisions instead of a seasoned veteran jumpmaster? I was a bit reckless my first year or two in the sport and felt how you did. Then I buried a friend, and then I buried a half dozen more. Funny how that changes everything. I give rather conservative advice now for one very selfish reason: I don't want to go to another friends funeral. I usually tell people that I will stick this note on their gravestone: "I told you so." As far as downsizing goes - I've been talking about doing that for four years now. Everytime I jump the size smaller than mine (like this weekend), I realize how much more I can do with the canopy I already own. Like this weekend - I did my first intentional downwind landing in winds over 10mph and stood it up. But I am sure you are better than the rest and are the exeption to the rule. I've been to two funerals for people that felt the same way. Where is my sticky pad...I think I may have a sign to write. I know I haven't been around as much lately....but my only reaction to this is.... sigh _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #154 August 9, 2006 I have deleted this post. I have been advised by PM that these two young men are no longer with us. This makes me very sad. My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #155 August 9, 2006 QuoteQuoteyou're abso-fucking-lutely correct. i agree wholeheartedly, etc, etc, etc. rock on. Both you and daskal act like this is recess on the playground. Well surprise, this is real life and it is a very dangerous game you play. Come back in 10 years or another 1,000 jumps and re-read you posts. (if you survive) It is my belief you will both agree just how foolish they read. Sparky, he can't. He's no longer a DGIT. He's just a DG."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #156 August 10, 2006 Quote...I think I'm safer jumping the Sabre2 170 than the Spectre 190 because it's more responsive hence more predictable. I cringed when I read this logic. Then I saw that Ron and Bill responded to it as I would have.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #157 August 10, 2006 QuoteI cringed when I read this logic. That isn’t logic; it is a poor attempt at rationalization.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #158 September 3, 2010 Quotesorry 'bout your friend(s)...doesn't change my opinion...maybe you think that because you think that you're wiser that your thoughts coincide with the wise. i don't think so. i'll be here tomorrow and the next day, even though you think i know less than you. i appreciate your concern but, in my experience, those with above-average ability progress on a steeper learning curve than the average. don't mean to be a dick, but i've been listening to the bullshit for too long. Quotedidn't you receive my, I'm tired of your rabble memo? i have done nothing dangerous to date. keep that in mind when your spouting more advice and judgements. Quotereckless advice? here's some advice; stop making friends with injury-prone people. The guy that typed those words..... Died from a landing injury 23 July 2006"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
format 1 #159 September 6, 2010 Should we make a list of excellent advices from too many people who died too, in similar scenarios? Your point is dégoûté.What goes around, comes later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
absane 0 #160 September 7, 2010 Ron - Accident report?Don't forget to pull! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #161 September 7, 2010 Quote Should we make a list of excellent advices from too many people who died too, in similar scenarios? Your point is dégoûté. While I don't think a list is necessary, I do think this epitaph can be appropriate for those that come and read such discussions. If I were to discuss at length that AAD's are a waste of money and that real skydivers don't need them, it would be correct IMHO for someone to post to the thread if I were to go in having been knocked out during a dive. ("An AAD might have...") I don't see it as "I told ya so" as much as "for those that come and read this years later, this poster may have changed his mind, based on his own experience... if he had lived" JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #162 September 7, 2010 QuoteShould we make a list of excellent advices from too many people who died too, in similar scenarios? Feel free."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #163 September 7, 2010 QuoteAccident report? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2347085#2347085"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
format 1 #164 September 7, 2010 You're missing my point, maybe. I may be too sensitive but I find citing dead jumpers inappropriate. It's not a "I told ya so", it's like a billboard which seems worse to me. And I don't see anybody quoting dead old-timers or highly experienced (dead) jumpers. Doesn't seem fair. The one who wants to read and learn will find his way without this, this, well, now you know what I've meant.What goes around, comes later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #165 September 7, 2010 >And I don't see anybody quoting dead old-timers or highly experienced (dead) jumpers. I've seen quite a few quotes here from Roger Nelson, Bungee Wallace, Sandy Wambach etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
format 1 #166 September 7, 2010 In mocking way? Well, I haven't. edit: Nor would I mind being mocked (being dead) but some living - object to it. It seem redundant too.What goes around, comes later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #167 September 7, 2010 QuoteI may be too sensitive but I find citing dead jumpers inappropriate. And if that set of quotes saves lives???? The fact is that what we type stays here for all to see and this is a relevant continuation of that earlier conversation. QuoteAnd I don't see anybody quoting dead old-timers or highly experienced (dead) jumpers. Just because you don't see it, means exactly just that. It has happened, and will happen again. QuoteThe one who wants to read and learn will find his way without this, this, well, now you know what I've meant. Maybe, and maybe not. I think they will not in most cases and I have been skydiving 17 years and been on this forum almost 10 years and seen this same story played out time and time again. Maybe, just maybe, some guy that thinks that he knows more than the people who are trying to warn him off the path he is on will read this and frankly it might shock him enough to hit the brakes just a bit and listen. Maybe not. Either way I can sleep at night because I tried to help.... You may not approve, but I'll still sleep tonight."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #168 September 7, 2010 QuoteIn mocking way? Well, I haven't. #1 you seem to think it is mocking... It is not. It is a continuation of that thread. #2. Just because YOU have not seen it does not mean it has not happened. Does not get more famous than the Pirus Story. Tom Pirus was one of the best skydivers in the WORLD: Quotehttp://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3518462;search_string=Pirus%20%20cypres;#3518462 That famous guy was Tom Pirus (sp?) world Champion relative worker and founder of Skydive University. Tommy received a complimentary Cypres just before he went to a boogie in Panama. They chose to ignore a loose-fitting pilot chute pouch. The last video footage of Tom Pirus has him joking about a shiny new electronic gadget that he could not remember how to turn on. While they were in freefall, the other jumper's pilot chute deployed prematurely and the ensuing collision knocked Tom unconscious. He woke up just in time to deploy just before impact, too late to slow down. Cypres sales boomed over the next year. Dealers could not keep Cypres on the shelves in 1994! Pointing out that he didn't use a device that he had that most likely would have saved his life is not "mocking" it is pointing out that even those that do not think they will need something just might. Another Story is the well know mod here who died in 07 after a hook turn went bad. People brought up his quotes while discussing him after the fact as well. Edit to change link and to add: If you wish to continue this discussion about this... Feel free to PM me. Your opinion is noted and opinions like yours were considered before I posted to this thread. I took no joy in that post, but I thought it might provide a good lesson that even if we *know* we are right.... we just may not be."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
format 1 #169 September 7, 2010 I beg your pardon. Corrected, ashamed (sort of) and learned.What goes around, comes later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #170 September 7, 2010 Having previously posted on Dizzy for a while, if anyone finds (after my fact) that something I said caused or contributed to my own accident, I would hope that someone knowledgeable would tag it to keep someone else from making the same stupid mistake. The problem I see is that the legacy (without the epitaphs) of our past postings might be used to convince someone that our old thoughts were right, even after we ourselves have moved on to new truths through our experiences and mistakes. We learn (sometimes), but our past postings stay just as good or bad as the day we made them. Unfortunately we don't always have the ability to come back here and edit/change/retract our earlier misconceptions. Tom taught us about AADs. Ted taught us another lesson about high perf turns at low altitudes. Dale taught the racing world about HANS devices (after publicly criticizing them) Others have taught us about seat belts and helmets after chucking them aside saying "not me/not now/don't need it" in front of younger impressionable individuals. They paid a hell of a price for the lesson. Their recorded/remembered comments before hand with regard to their fateful choice must be seen in the full context of the outcome for us to help avoid others repeating lessons after using the same "justification" without knowing the outcome. Thanks Tom/Ted/Dale for helping me out. Sorry about the price... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
