Mid-Air Collision - Boulder, Co.

[shropshire 0]

Flying without comms looking where others are. is as stupid as jumping and not looking where others are.


I fly paragliders across country .. I have a radio but can't talk to all other a/c or ATC... Am I daft for doing so?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[CanuckInUSA 0]

No "if and or but about it". Alex was towing the glider. He was the less maneuverable aircraft. Alex had the right of way. The Cirrus pilot was at fault for "not conducting his flight in the safest possible manner".

Sorry for your loss Matt.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Flying without comms is as stupid as jumping and not looking where others are.

Someone will die.

100% disagree.

1-fly the airplane
2-look outside
3-navigate
4-talk on the radio.

this coming from a 1000hr com/ins/multi/gli pilot who lost his bes friend to possibly someone not paying attention.

the radio means 5% of what looking around does.

Calvin, I understand, but the radio is just one part of the requirement to be aware.

Whether or not it played a role was not what I was debating.

I think that in all aviation radios are a plus.

Eyes and a head on a swivel are just one of several methods to ensure safety.

If any pilot fails to see something, should they be unaware of the danger posed?

Radios provide a way to give someone a heads up on trouble.

If radios had no use they would not be installed in any aircraft.

[warpedskydiver 0]

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Flying without comms looking where others are. is as stupid as jumping and not looking where others are.


I fly paragliders across country .. I have a radio but can't talk to all other a/c or ATC... Am I daft for doing so?

No, you have a radio and can listen to traffic in order to be AWARE.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Pick up a Denver sectional and you will see that Boulder Municipal Airport is a glider tow airport. If the Cirrus pilot was not aware of this, then he violated an FAR. When I did my flight training on Colorado's front range a few years back (Jeffco was my home base), my instructor would chew my ear off if I was not constantly monitoring the airspace (Denver's front range is a pretty busy area). Plus while there is nothing saying I could not fly over Boulder's airport, I was strongly advised not to do it. Why? because of the glider operations.

Radios are valuable when landing and taking off and sure radios can also be used at anytime during the flight. But radios were not the cause of this accident. There is a reason why FARs exists and this Cirrus pilot was complacent with these very same FARs.

Alex had the right of way.

Complacency kills ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[warpedskydiver 0]

Agreed.

[ryoder 1,590]

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Pick up a Denver sectional and you will see that Boulder Municipal Airport is a glider tow airport.

Or, go here, and type "BDU" into the box at the upper left corner, then click on "Go":

http://skyvector.com/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[JohnMitchell 16]

I'm not a pilot, but I work with them daily. I think some these days are doing push button preplanning. Load the destination in the GPS, turn on, and fly straight there. I have guys filing IFR well below the terrain. Makes me wonder if they really used a map.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I'm not a pilot, but I work with them daily. I think some these days are doing push button preplanning. Load the destination in the GPS, turn on, and fly straight there. I have guys filing IFR well below the terrain. Makes me wonder if they really used a map.

Some say that FAR 91.103 "is the most important aviation safety regulation in existence".

It states:

"Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. This information must include ... blah blah blah"

GPS is a wonderful tool. But one must do more than just plan from point A to point B.

Who knows what was going on in the cockpit of the Cirrus. Did they have their noses down in the instruments? Were there fuddling with gadgets? Were they simply distracted talking to each other about the incredible views flying over the front range? Who knows? But shit happens fast up there. Complacency kills.

I was flying over Lafayette one day (heading from Jeffco towards Longmont) when I put my head down to look at my instruments for a few seconds. When I looked up I noticed an aircraft approximately 1/2 mile away from me on a collision course. I immediately turned right and it was only after I started my turn did the other pilot see my profile and they turned.

The airspace over northwest Denver is challenging airspace. It is some of the more busy GA air traffic in the entire USA. There are aircraft coming and going from Jeffco transitioning from different altitudes. There are the glider tow operations in Boulder and the skydiving in Longmont. If pilots are not aware of the challenges of this airspace, then they are not following FAR 91.103.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[ryoder 1,590]

Oh, for chrissake!

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2010/02/westboro_baptist_church_plans.php

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Calvin19 0]

wow.

Alex is getting part of his service at Fort Logan, He was a US Marine. I dare them to show up there. It has been a long time since I sent someone to the ICU. And I know I'll have backup.

[theonlyski 8]

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wow.

Alex is getting part of his service at Fort Logan, He was a US Marine. I dare them to show up there. It has been a long time since I sent someone to the ICU. And I know I'll have backup.

I really wish these guys would grow up, get a life and maybe do some time in the military, marines or army preferably... so they can see what they're doing is wrong and how much it upsets us.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[johndh1 0]

Ugh, I thought those people had gone away. Back before I moved here from Alabama, about three years ago I guess, they were demonstrating in Huntsville as to how God killed a busload of schoolchildren who plummeted off an overpass. They almost got shot. Too bad they didn't.

I'd like to show up with a shit cannon on them.

Roll Tide Roll

[labrys 0]

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Ugh, I thought those people had gone away.

"Those people" have been harassing the gay community for over 40 years. They aren't going anywhere, they're just expanding their focus.

Owned by Remi #?

[johndh1 0]

Oh, I know their history, I just hadn't heard any news on them for a long time. I really wish the media would give them zero coverage, but my list on that is a long one that apparently isn't going away.
You're right about their expanding their base, and I guess it all boils to America's support of homosexuality - as we all know, this country as a whole has quite a history of being SO supportive all this time.

Roll Tide Roll

[vanair 0]

true about climbing, and yes I know the altitudes and direction above 3000' AGL. What I was talking about is how it seems everyone below 3000' AGL seem to always fly at 1500, 2000 or 2500. That's why if I have to cruise below 3000' because of clouds or under a class B, I choose an off alt such as 2300 etc.

[vanair 0]

Sometimes it's hard to look well. About 5 years ago at the ranch NY. I was TM I was about 7000' in freefall looking at camera person Kaz she slightly below and in front. I HEARD something did a quick look around then down. My mind took a picture that is etched in my memory. About forty feet below me is a Cessna Skymaster push pull twin. I would have hit the middle of the left wing. I pointed and Kaz turned and got the plane flying away. Not as impressive with a fisheye lens. He was probably doing 180-200 MPH. About 3 miles a minute, I got out of the otter at 14000'. Probably about 35-40" into freefall I guestimate that when I exited He was about 2 miles away. He was flying south, our jumprun was to the west. I would have had to see him thru the starboard windows. Don't know if I even looked. Lady luck was with me. When we got on the ground, we told the clueless girl because it would be on her video. I asked our pilot to tell ATC they suck.

[warpedskydiver 0]

That could have been ugly


Has any jumper been struck by a. Non jup ac?

[vanair 0]

Yes a few years ago in conn. solo low time jumper, I think less then 50 jumps. Saw the piper coming didn't do anything hit the rudder, ripped his boot off breaking his ankle. piper pitched up stalled, spun in with jammed rudder killing 4 people. A more experienced jumper probably would have pulled, which if I remember right he had time to do and be above the plane. Also I think in the 80s in Calif. a jumper closing in on a 3 way was taken out by a military cargo plane, missed the 3 way. Plane thought it hit a big bird didn't find out till after landing. Jumper dead. Can probably find out more online.

[Squeak 17]

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That could have been ugly


Has any jumper been struck by a. Non jup ac?

There was a jumper hit a couple of years ago, not sure but may have been ZHills?

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[stratostar 5]

That pretty much sums it up out of the total in the USA.

1. The C-130 in SD CA (freefall)
2. The piper in Conn. (freefall)

3. A demo jumper hit by biplane circling (under canopy)
4. Texas formation flight jumper hit chase plane. (freefall)
5. Gus Wing (under canopy)
6. The guy in Orange this year (under canopy)


(from a trusted database)

Narrative: Fatal Skydiver/Aircraft Collisions


In the history of skydiving in the U.S., there have been only two fatal collisions between a skydiver and a non-participating (non-jump plane) aircraft.

1. August 23, 1980, a skydiver in freefall was struck by the tail of a Lockheed L-100 (civilian C-130) as it flew near the Borderland SPC near San Diego. The jumper was killed; the aircraft proceeded unknowingly to its destination.

2. November 21, 1993, a skydiver in freefall was struck by a Piper Cherokee that was enroute over the Airborne Adventures DZ near Northampton, MA. The Cherokee went out of control and crashed, killing the pilot and three passengers. The skydiver was injured, but deployed his parachute and survived. The NTSB determined that the probable cause of this accident was failure of the Air Traffic Control (ATC) facility to identify and provide the required traffic information to the jump aircraft before release of the jumpers.

There were three other fatal accidents involving skydivers and “participating” aircraft.

3. July 24, 1993 at an airshow at the Lebanon Airport in Maine, a demo jumper under canopy was killed during his descent when he was struck by a Christen Eagle biplane that was circling him with smoke. The skydiver was killed and the aircraft crashed, killing the pilot.

4. May 27, 2001 at Skydive San Marcos near Fentress, TX, a skydiver exiting a King Air was struck by a Twin Otter and killed. The two aircraft were flying formation parachute operations.

5. April, 23, 2005 at Skydive DeLand near Deland, FL, a skydiver under canopy was struck by the DZC-6 Twin Otter he had exited at higher altitude. The collision occurred at an estimated 600 feet, and killed the skydiver. The aircraft landed safely. The NTSB determined that the probable cause of this accident was the pilot's inadequate visual lookout.


6. On June 13, 2009, about 1945 eastern daylight time, a Dehavilland DHC-6 Twin Otter, N204EH, operated by Skydive Factory Inc., impacted a skydiver’s parachute while maneuvering near Orange County Airport (OMH), Orange, Virginia. The certificated airline transport pilot was not injured and the airplane was not damaged. The skydiver was seriously injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed for the local skydive flight conducted under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The flight originated from OMH at 1925.

According to the pilot, after the 20 jumpers left the airplane, he “descended and entered at a 45-degree angle for the downwind leg for landing on runway 08.” Once on the downwind leg of the traffic pattern, the pilot stated that the “windshield began fogging up.” The pilot decided to make a 360-degree turn to the right while he wiped the window with a rag. The pilot further stated that the last altitude he remembered being at was 2,000 feet mean sea level.

Many of the skydivers had landed in a predetermined landing area, which was a field 0.25 nautical miles northwest of the runway. They reported that the airplane was conducting a “low-pass” about 30 feet above the ground, when its propeller struck a descending skydiver’s parachute. The skydiver was seriously injured when he fell approximately 20 feet and hit the ground, but the airplane landed without incident. A few of the skydivers stated that the jump was a memorial exercise to release the ashes of a friend that recently died. They added that the airplane's low pass was part of the memorial exercise.

The OMH weather recorded at 1943 included calm winds, clear skies, and visibility 10 miles.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[ryoder 1,590]

And there was this close call:

http://www.dropzone.com/news/Skydiverinnearmisswithsl.shtml

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[stratostar 5]

It's all in how you look at it, but close don't count on this tally card. It's still a big sky out there, till you run out of all the room in it.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[leesamsiel 0]

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Mode C is required for any flight 10,000 MSL (not AGL) and above in the U.S. FAR part 91. For a plane based in Colorado, that would be quite limiting. However, tow planes and crop dusters do usually stay fairly low.

You have also got to have functioning Mode C if you overfly the top of Bravo or Charlie airspace...which may often be under 10,000' MSL.

LS

[riggerrob 643]

"... Makes me wonder if they really used a map.

...
GPS is a wonderful tool. But one must do more than just plan from point A to point B.
..."

.........................................................................

Last time I was in Southern California, there was grumbling amongst skydivers about how slow GPS manufacturers were in displaying DZs on the moving maps now standard in GPS.
GPS manufacturers replied that little symbols of parachutes ate up far too much processing power.

Do any modern GPS display DZs?