Crossfire reline/recall?

[BillyVance 34]

A friend of mine recently told me he had his Crossfire 119 re-lined. He has had the canopy for several years and loves swooping it. Apparently there was a recall on the Crossfire. He ignored it, thinking there weren't anything wrong with his canopy. Now after getting it back with the new lineset, he noticed the rear risers being a bit longer than the front risers.

He also noticed, to his dismay, when setting up for his swoop, that the front risers had much higher pressure than before, meaning he had to use more strength to pull down, but a lot less strength to pull the rear risers... Anyway, this is messing his swoops up so he is having to adjust. Anyone have any reasons why Icarus went with the new design?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[AndyMan 7]

Because it killed someone. http://www.skydivingfatalities.info/search.asp?MinDate=8%2F25%2F01&MaxDate=8%2F27%2F2001&Place=&State=NY&Country=US&Category=&MinAge=17&MaxAge=78&UnknownAge=on&MinJumps=0&MaxJumps=15000&UnknownJumps=on&AAD=&RSL=&Description=&DescriptionOperator=OR&Lessons=&LessonsOperator=OR

And nearly killed a few others http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=171408;

Icarus and the community at large came to the conclusion that a design defect in the original Crossfire contributed to the incidents.

Many jumpers reported that the redesigned Crossfire 1 perfermed poorly, and it quickly fell out of fashion.

Icarus later redesigned and reissued the Crossfire as the "Crossfire 2", and it suffered neither frequent collapses nor the dogginess of the post Service-Bulletin Crossfire 1.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[PhreeZone 20]

If your friend ignored the recall he was'nt that smart for doing it. The canopies had an issue of collapsing when under a front riser dive and it play a factor in the death of one jumper.

All the canopies are under the newer trim if I remember right. The new trim makes the canopy fly slightly different but tended to solve that whole balling up thing in a dive.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[BillyVance 34]

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If your friend ignored the recall he was'nt that smart for doing it. The canopies had an issue of collapsing when under a front riser dive and it play a factor in the death of one jumper.

All the canopies are under the newer trim if I remember right. The new trim makes the canopy fly slightly different but tended to solve that whole balling up thing in a dive.

He sure didn't know about this... He never had anything like that happen, but that's not to say it wouldn't have...

Thanks, I'll tell him about it. He's not computer-saavy...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[skycat 0]

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If your friend ignored the recall he was'nt that smart for doing it. The canopies had an issue of collapsing when under a front riser dive and it play a factor in the death of one jumper.

All the canopies are under the newer trim if I remember right. The new trim makes the canopy fly slightly different but tended to solve that whole balling up thing in a dive.

My canopy was made after the re-call and has the original line trim (wasn't part of the re-call), I'm dredding getting it re-lined because I don't want the "new" line trim due to all the changes it makes in how the canopy flies.

Of course this may be a non-issue since my Mirage and PD113 is currently grounded due to them being incompatible (see the mirage TSO issue). So now my plans of jumping again this summer are out the window unless I buy a new reserve or new container.

Fly it like you stole it!

[sdctlc 0]

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Of course this may be a non-issue since my Mirage and PD113 is currently grounded due to them being incompatible (see the mirage TSO issue). So now my plans of jumping again this summer are out the window unless I buy a new reserve or new container.

Maybe I missed something here?? You are talking about getting your main re-lined but you have a separate issue with a reserve in the miriage? TSO will not apply to the main at all and you can jump what you want. I just scanned briefly the Gear and rigging for a Mirage TSO issue and it did not jump out at me? I easily could have missed something but..

Can some one toss a bone here??

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[Hooknswoop 19]

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1651849;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Derek

[skycat 0]

Separate issues, forgot to add the part that I'm never going to get enough jumps on the main at this rate to need a reline.

Fly it like you stole it!

[flow 1]

Performed poorly, huh, have you ever jumped Crossfire1? The ones I have jumped performed anything but poorly, and infact I liked it more than any other 9-cell I have jumped so far. None of them was affected by the recall though (those were built in Europe and not by Precision) and I still own one, it is built before the recall, but in Europe and was not affected.

[masterrigger1 2]

Icarus and the community at large came to the conclusion that a design defect in the original Crossfire contributed to the incidents.

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It was not a design flaw. It was mis-manufacturing by a certain manufacturer.
This is the reason there are two line trim specs for Crossfire I's
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Many jumpers reported that the redesigned Crossfire 1 perfermed poorly, and it quickly fell out of fashion.

The higher riser pressure was a turn off! But only on the ones made in the USA, not Spain.

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Icarus later redesigned and reissued the Crossfire as the "Crossfire 2", and it suffered neither frequent collapses nor the dogginess of the post Service-Bulletin Crossfire 1.

The Crossfire 2 is a totally different canopy that began conception even before the recall even began.

Both the Crossfire 2 and the Safire 2 are different canopies as a whole as from the earlier versions.
***


If you need more info, please contact me directly.
Thanks,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[skycat 0]

Does that mean if you have a crossfire 1 made in Spain when you get a reline you will be able to get the original line trim?

Fly it like you stole it!

[masterrigger1 2]

Yep!!!
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[riggerrob 643]

Of course this may be a non-issue since my Mirage and PD113 is currently grounded due to them being incompatible (see the mirage TSO issue). So now my plans of jumping again this summer are out the window unless I buy a new reserve or new container.

[skycat 0]

See the other thread about it and discuss this issue there. Because if it was so cut and dry my reserve would be packed right now.

Fly it like you stole it!

[diablopilot 2]

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It was not a design flaw. It was mis-manufacturing by a certain manufacturer.

Not entirely true. Prototypes of the canopy as well as early production versions from the New Zealand designer exhibited the same flaw.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I thought that we beat that horse to death last week.

No, we didn't. You beat the wrong horse. The PD-113R produces an average peak force of 3639 pounds during TSO drop tests and is marked on the reserve label as required by AS8015B. The Mirage is certified under TSO C23B, low speed catagory, limited to a 3,000 pound load force. According to AC-105-2C, the reserve cannot produce more load than the harness is rated to, which in the case of a Mirage and PD-113R, it does. Therefore the two are not compatable. This is not about the reserve being certified to a higher weight than the container and just de-rate it down to the container. You missed the point.

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TSO-C23B allows Relative Workshop (Vector), Jump Shack (Racer) and Mirage Systems (G3 and G4) to assign any upper weight limits they like, as long as their drop tests prove that their harnesses can survive the extra weight and airspeed.

The Mirage is limited to 3,000 pounds force, the others, 5,000 pounds force. The PD-113R produces more than 3,000 pounds force, as I'm sure other PDR's and other reserves do. The reserve cannot produce more force on opening than the harness is rated to.

Derek

[scdrnr 0]

There are 3 trim specs for crossfire 1's. The original, CF0102 (dated 2/2001) and CF0110 (dated 10/2001).

As I understand it the difference is in the length of the B lines with the original being the longest and CF0110 being the shortest. It shouldn't affect overall performance, just feel, with front riser pressure being most noticable. I know many who had their crossfires relined and noticed a change, but adapted and are very happy.

There were two related problems with the original crossfire. First, they could collapse or become unstable if the trim was out of tolerance, so in Feb 2001 they instituted CF0102 to give slightly more margin and started requiring vectran lines. This change was completely transparent, and not required initially.

Then canopies manufactured in the US started having problems that they attributed to sloppy canopy construction. A service bulletin was issued with a range of serial numbers. Some canopies were worse than others, but most canopies were "fixed" by installing trim spec CF0110. Some canopies were still not right and got replaced, others never had any problems before or after, but are part of the serial number range requiring retrim to CF0110.

Crossfire 1's now get relined with either CF0102 or CF0110 trims depending on serial number.

The crossfire is still a great canopy with either trim. Lots of people (who don't even use their front risers) have sold them cheap because they heard others say it isn't as high-performance anymore.

The fatality at the Ranch was likely due to turbulence, but since it happened just after the service bulletin was issued, and she was jumping a crossfire, everyone blamed the canopy. I think people just like to assign blame to something tangible like a canopy that they don't own, rather than accept that random things out of their control can kill them.

[masterrigger1 2]

Not entirely true. Prototypes of the canopy as well as early production versions from the New Zealand designer exhibited the same flaw.

[diablopilot 2]

More than one Crossfire 1 built in NZ and flown buy a pretty experienced JM there, as well as 2 Spanish built (CISMA) C1'S that I personaly encountered were affected too.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.