becoming an AFF instructor from scratch. need info

[jake95 0]

Hey guy's here my situation
I have 2 years left to use my military GI bill benefits. i'm trying to find out if i can use my benefits for a skydiving education, it would pay me 1000 to 1300 a month. is that enough and is it even possible to become an AFF instructor from scratch, going through all the licenses requirments in 24 months. i'm a firefighter now and only work 10 day's a month so i have plenty of time though out the week to jump. I just cant think of a better part time job. thx guy's. any info would help.

[theonlyski 8]

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Hey guy's here my situation
I have 2 years left to use my military GI bill benefits. i'm trying to find out if i can use my benefits for a skydiving education, it would pay me 1000 to 1300 a month. is that enough and is it even possible to become an AFF instructor from scratch, going through all the licenses requirments in 24 months. i'm a firefighter now and only work 10 day's a month so i have plenty of time though out the week to jump. I just cant think of a better part time job. thx guy's. any info would help.

I havnt found anything that says you could use it for skydiving... most I've found is a list of vocational stuff.

I'm trying to see if I can get them to pay for me to go to a riggers course myself...

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[msandt 0]

I've been wondering the same thing about my GI benefits and if it is possible to use them for Ratings Courses, Riggers Courses, etc. Has anyone actually talked to anyone with the VA about this? I havent yet (as Im still a good ways from meeting the minimum req for my ratings) but would like more info if yall have any. I'm doing my Coach Course next week but just paying out of pocket for it. Thanks guys, keep me posted please.

[tdog 0]

You can do it in 24 months if you have the money.

Gear = $5,000

360 jumps = $9,000

3 hours of coached tunnel time = $3000-5000 (travel and tunnel prices vary)

Ratings, USPA fees, Coach Course, AFF Course, coaching, etc = $1000-2000

So about $20,000. If the GI bill pays $1000 a month, you can do it in 20 months.

Now, can you use the GI bill for this? Don't know... But I would research if the GI bill will pay for a commercial pilot's licence then apply the same logic here... (Will it pay, for an example, for someone to rent a plane and fly around for fun, to build hours to a flying career...)

[PhreeZone 20]

My limited understanding is that the "School" also has to be previously accepted and vetted as an educator. The issue with this is to prevent Joe's brother Billy from saying "I'm going to teach Joe to be a plumber and use his GI Bill to pay me". To my knowledge no DZ or examiner has gone through the process of getting all their programs certified for this.

Also note on the GI BIll website the new info around this:

Quote

Flight Training
Not available under the Post-9/11 GI Bill or Dependents Education Assistance program

This benefit is available for Flight Training such as:

* Rotary wing qualification
* B747-400 Qualification
* Dual Qualification

In order to qualify, you must have a private pilot's license and valid medical certification before beginning training. VA will reimburse you for 60% of the approved charges.

Payments are issued after the training is completed and the school submits information to the VA.

It looks like they are even limiting what Flight benefits you can use it for so its no longer a blank slate to get a pilots license but you have to be using it to get ratings for jobs.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[timmyfitz 0]

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You can do it in 24 months if you have the money.

Gear = $5,000

360 jumps = $9,000

3 hours of coached tunnel time = $3000-5000 (travel and tunnel prices vary)

Ratings, USPA fees, Coach Course, AFF Course, coaching, etc = $1000-2000

So about $20,000. If the GI bill pays $1000 a month, you can do it in 20 months.

Now, can you use the GI bill for this? Don't know... But I would research if the GI bill will pay for a commercial pilot's licence then apply the same logic here... (Will it pay, for an example, for someone to rent a plane and fly around for fun, to build hours to a flying career...)

Why do you include 3 hours of tunnel time as if it's a requirement to get an AFF instructor rating?

[tdog 0]

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Why do you include 3 hours of tunnel time as if it's a requirement to get an AFF instructor rating?

Short answer... Because there is a difference between being an AFFI and a good AFFI.

Long answer... It is not a requirement. But I think it is a real good idea. Most people I know who have gotten their ratings in the last few years have spent time in the tunnel practicing roll overs, spin stops, delivering handsignals while still on harness hold, etc, in addition to RW training for 4way or just 2 way informal RW. Likewise, most AFF instructors at our DZ, being that the tunnel is only 1 hour away, are expected by their students to be able to coach in the tunnel too - and for a full time AFF instructor, this can be a key source of revenue. Without tunnel time the individual can't be a good coach in the tunnel.

If someone is getting their rating at 360 jumps, the bare minimum of 6 hours of freefall time, they likely don't have the skillset to fly AFF without tunnel time unless they did 4way or some other disciplined RW training approach, because probably 100 or so of those jumps were belly jumps, 50 wingsuit, 50 tracking, and 150 freefly...

[timmyfitz 0]

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Quote

Why do you include 3 hours of tunnel time as if it's a requirement to get an AFF instructor rating?

Short answer... Because there is a difference between being an AFFI and a good AFFI.

Long answer... It is not a requirement. But I think it is a real good idea. Most people I know who have gotten their ratings in the last few years have spent time in the tunnel practicing roll overs, spin stops, delivering handsignals while still on harness hold, etc, in addition to RW training for 4way or just 2 way informal RW. Likewise, most AFF instructors at our DZ, being that the tunnel is only 1 hour away, are expected by their students to be able to coach in the tunnel too - and for a full time AFF instructor, this can be a key source of revenue. Without tunnel time the individual can't be a good coach in the tunnel.

If someone is getting their rating at 360 jumps, the bare minimum of 6 hours of freefall time, they likely don't have the skillset to fly AFF without tunnel time unless they did 4way or some other disciplined RW training approach, because probably 100 or so of those jumps were belly jumps, 50 wingsuit, 50 tracking, and 150 freefly...

So the answer is it's not a requirement. Thanks.

[tdog 0]

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So the answer is it's not a requirement. Thanks.

I never said it was. I simply listed a bunch of realistic expenses in my first post so someone could build a budget to see if they could afford it... Technically a rig is not required either, but it is a realistic expensem thus on the budget.

But, I could say, coaching of some sort is a requirement to pass the course, and tunnel time is often the most effective and cost saving method, thus that is why I included it. There are other coaching methods that could replace it....

Very few people would pass an AFF course without some sort of disciplined coaching at 360 jumps and 2 years in the sport. If they had maybe 700 jumps they would possibly have better belly skills, but that would have cost money too... Or maybe add some training budget to travel to boogies or events where they could get world class organizers to help them for "free".

Required??? At 360 jumps they would almost definitely need some coaching to get a rating. It could be paying for a coach to coach their RW team and hiring outside video for the training jumps, or finding a mentor who has the skillset to train, who is willing to do many training jumps with them for free.

If you take off the money I budgeted for the tunnel time, you would have to replace it with some sort of other training, ranging from a pre course offered by the AFF evaluators to bigway camps to paying for video on larger group RW jumps or something... Unless of course the candidate had "mad skilz" and somehow learned how to do all the requirements of AFF while doing solo jumps or jumping with their friends who likely are not AFF instructors... Since the person asking the question presumably has no jumps since they asked "from scratch" - there is no way to know if they will need or not need advanced coaching, thus it would be smart to budget it. Likewise, there is no promise that they will make friends, at their DZ, with people willing to coach for free, so the budget item should be put in "just in case".

So I stand firm in my opinion about my realistic budget I posted... Some sort of coaching should be budgeted by someone looking to get their AFFI as soon as possible from scratch, especially if they are only budgeting 360 jumps like I calculated.

[timmyfitz 0]

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So the answer is it's not a requirement. Thanks.

I never said it was. I simply listed a bunch of realistic expenses in my first post so someone could build a budget to see if they could afford it... Technically a rig is not required either, but it is a realistic expensem thus on the budget.

But, I could say, coaching of some sort is a requirement to pass the course, and tunnel time is often the most effective and cost saving method, thus that is why I included it. There are other coaching methods that could replace it....

Very few people would pass an AFF course without some sort of disciplined coaching at 360 jumps and 2 years in the sport. If they had maybe 700 jumps they would possibly have better belly skills, but that would have cost money too... Or maybe add some training budget to travel to boogies or events where they could get world class organizers to help them for "free".

Required??? At 360 jumps they would almost definitely need some coaching to get a rating. It could be paying for a coach to coach their RW team and hiring outside video for the training jumps, or finding a mentor who has the skillset to train, who is willing to do many training jumps with them for free.

If you take off the money I budgeted for the tunnel time, you would have to replace it with some sort of other training, ranging from a pre course offered by the AFF evaluators to bigway camps to paying for video on larger group RW jumps or something... Unless of course the candidate had "mad skilz" and somehow learned how to do all the requirements of AFF while doing solo jumps or jumping with their friends who likely are not AFF instructors... Since the person asking the question presumably has no jumps since they asked "from scratch" - there is no way to know if they will need or not need advanced coaching, thus it would be smart to budget it. Likewise, there is no promise that they will make friends, at their DZ, with people willing to coach for free, so the budget item should be put in "just in case".

So I stand firm in my opinion about my realistic budget I posted... Some sort of coaching should be budgeted by someone looking to get their AFFI as soon as possible from scratch, especially if they are only budgeting 360 jumps like I calculated.

No need for the long rant. I got the answer I was looking for. The answer is it's not a requirement. Just wondering why you included it in your list, as though it was required, of actual requirements.

[matthewcline 0]

Short answer is "No" to Skydiving and Rigging Education paid by the GI Bill.

There are no Recognized nor accredited Rigging or Skydiving Instructor Courses in the US. I also have been told by the VA that the NZ school is not to the VA's Standard either.

It will be an out of pocket expense just like a Private Pilots License.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[jake95 0]

Thx for the info guy's. Maybe in a few years some one else will be able to get lucky.

[jake95 0]

Hey guys I have some good news. I just talked to some one who is putting together a complete skydiving education curriculum to have a career in skydiving. He is almost complete and has put a lot of work into it. He has been in contact with the VA to assure is he following the correct procedure. Now does mean it will work, well that's yet to be seen. But the ball is rolling, which is great news for any veteran that would like this career path. No time frame right now but like I said in my earlier post it might benefit a veteran in a few years. So thank you Rob for all your hard work.

[buff 0]

I think they added that you have to have 3 years in the sport now in addition to the other AFFI req's or is that just for a TI.

It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude.
If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough.
That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama

[jake95 0]

He told me that was just ti

[billvon 2,990]

>Why do you include 3 hours of tunnel time as if it's a requirement to get an
>AFF instructor rating?

Because in general you need more than 360 jumps to get the experience you need to be able to pass the AFF rating. Tunnel time is generally cheaper per minute than practice jumps. It can theoretically be done without the tunnel time or the extra jumps, but it's unlikely.

[Dutton 0]

Career path?

[theonlyski 8]

Quote

Short answer is "No" to Skydiving and Rigging Education paid by the GI Bill.

There are no Recognized nor accredited Rigging or Skydiving Instructor Courses in the US. I also have been told by the VA that the NZ school is not to the VA's Standard either.

It will be an out of pocket expense just like a Private Pilots License.

Matt

Just out of curiosity, when did you get that word?

I seem to recall something not too long ago that made it seem like a riggers ticket could be re-imbursed (even if just the testing fees)

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[jake95 0]

yes career path. if it worked for me it would be a part time path. but for others, too each their own.

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

>Why do you include 3 hours of tunnel time as if it's a requirement to get an
>AFF instructor rating?

Because in general you need more than 360 jumps to get the experience you need to be able to pass the AFF rating. Tunnel time is generally cheaper per minute than practice jumps. It can theoretically be done without the tunnel time or the extra jumps, but it's unlikely.

Thanks for giving me the same answer that has already been posted.

[riggerrob 643]

May I suggest an alternative approach?
Start by looking at pay rates for different skydiving ratings, then research backwards about training costs.
Over the last 18 years, I have made the most money off my rigger rating (4,000 reserve pack jobs plus many miles of sewing, etc.).

I have made almost as much money off my Tandem Instructor rating (4,300 jumps).

I have made small amounts of money off my Skydive School, S/L and IAD Instructor ratings.

And I have made an insignificant amount of money off my Progressive Freefall Instructor rating (Canadian equivalent of AFF/I). PFF ground school takes much longer than tandem ground school, but pays the same.

I have also done about 600 tandem hand-cam videos, but quit doing that when the DZO quit paying for it.

I also researched doing outside video, but it paid about the same as tandem, but required me to invest many more thousands of dollars in cameras, lenses, batteries, tapes, cords, switches, helmets, jumpsuits, harnesses, main canopies, reserve canopies, AADs, etc. Plus more time editing, etc. for not much more pay than tandem.

Also, an FAA Rigger rating allows you to pack main parachutes for other people, and that is the best paying job on any DZ.

[danornan 79]

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't you want to make a few skydives first to see if you really like it? Seems like the cart is a little ahead of the horse!

Dano

[jake95 0]

i have a few jump 10 years ago and i loved it but didn't have time to pursue it . like i said before it would just be a part time gig. i have a lot of time on my hands. but hey thx for the encouragement.

[msandt 0]

Quote

Also note on the GI BIll website the new info around this:

Quote

Flight Training
Not available under the Post-9/11 GI Bill or Dependents Education Assistance program

This benefit is available for Flight Training such as:

* Rotary wing qualification
* B747-400 Qualification
* Dual Qualification

In order to qualify, you must have a private pilot's license and valid medical certification before beginning training. VA will reimburse you for 60% of the approved charges.

Payments are issued after the training is completed and the school submits information to the VA.

It looks like they are even limiting what Flight benefits you can use it for so its no longer a blank slate to get a pilots license but you have to be using it to get ratings for jobs.

The Post 9/11 GI Bill is different than the orignal one, and it is up to the veteran to choose which one he wants if he is eligible for Post 9/11. But you are correct, the school must be approved by the VA and I knew this is where the challenge would be. If you found one that was, I doubt they would pay for your jumps to get the numbers, gear, etc, just for the courses/training needed. They have different pay scales based on how many "hours" of school you attend or some sort of equivilent. Either way, it is probably more trouble than any AFF/I-E, T/I-E, etc would want to bother with. Good luck guys.