Dog Training Help

[PLFXpert 0]

Hi ya'll,

I need help. Cruzer (my newly adopted 32 lb 8-mo old with no previous training) does not start obedience classes until Oct. 9th. He came from an abused home, so he knows the word "No" very well and seems to listen to that, even when you don't say it in a mean voice.

But, I have no idea what to do for a punishment if he does something we don't want him to do and he doesn't understand. I will NOT spank, he has a crate we put him in when we leave but we want that to be a "safe" place and not a punishment place. If you leash him outside he'll view it as reward since he loves to play in the yard and the neighbor's kids come over. If we just put him in a room, he'll wimper and get sad and pee on the floor.

What can I do for punishment besides just say "No"---like give him a "time-out" somewhere, but where and how.

Anyone with dogs---I need advice. I grew up with several dogs but all very small and for "punishment" my parents would just put them in their room where their papers were (my parents refused to walk dogs and had a room in the back by the utility room with papers for them to go on.)

This is my *gasp* *beer* FIRST big dog so I'm not sure what to do on a few things and I REALLY want to be a good mamma to him as he's not been treated fairly at all in the past.

Thanks for any advice on anything:-)

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[mnealtx 0]

First off, good luck with the classes! Clicker training works very well, too.

Rattle cans can work very well. Rinse out a coke can and put a dozen pennies inside, then tape it shut.

Throw the can on the floor near him at the same time you say "No!". He should get the hint.

Good luck!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Icon134 0]

I almost never say "No" to Karma... I have different commands for things that I don't want her to do.

For example if I find her on the Sofa upon entering a room then I tell her to "Get Off" or Just say "Off" (she's probably on the sofa right now (since I'm not in the room with her... and she is Alpha when I'm gone...)

If She is getting into something that she shouldn't have I use the command "Leave It"

Good Luck... HeHe Big... Karma is about 65 lbs.

Scott

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[chuckbrown 0]

Give him/her lots of love and let him/her know when you're upset & why (pointing at the offense is sufficient). Dogs are very, very intuitive and understand humans very well (in fact some anthropologists believe that a dogs ability to "read" a human is why they became "man's best friend.") Just remember you don't have to impose pain for the dog to understand the lesson; a disapproving tone of voice will work quite well.

BTW, I had a dog years ago that I found as a 6 mo. old abused pup. In 14 years I spanked her once (and not very hard). She was very eager to please.

[NtheSeaOrSky 0]

It may be my lack of sleep, but what is he being punished for?

It is important to realize dogs do not correlate 'time outs' as a punishment - especially after the fact - there are only two seconds between the 'act' and its repercussions that they actually associate the two.

Also, former abused animals are a bit different than one who has never seen an unkind hand. You will get MUCH further with them for rewarding the good things - no matter how little - than punishing for the intermittent bad ones. Once the puppy learns what good things are, the bad stuff kinda disappears off on its own.

If you have particular questions, feel free to PM me and I will share more with you!

Good luck and congratulations on your new pup!

Life is not fair and there are no guarantees...

[peregrinerose 0]

All three of my dogs were rescues. One was an abused adult (2 when I adopted him), one is a greyhound who based on his behavior probably had less than kind treatment. The other was a young puppy, so not a problem there.

I agree with the others, reward the good and instead of telling the dog what not to do, teach them commands of what to do instead. "Come Here" instead of no when running away, "Off" instead of no when they jump on the furnature, "Sit" when they are jumping on people, "Settle" when the get a bit overboard in the playing.

Teach them the opposites too, "On" if you want them on the couch. "Up" if you want them to stand up for kisses, "Go" for get away from me and have fun, etc. That way they also learn there's a time and place for everything.

Make sure you are alpha. My dogs all wait for permission from me to eat. They have their eating order based on their heirarchy. They wait for permission to leave the crate, or to leave the house when they go outside. They are definitely not beaten, but they also know who's boss. If yours has alpha issues (my first one did), there are some tricks to modify that.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[vt1977 0]

Dogs are much like men… positive reinforcement is nearly always the best way. Reward good behaviour!

Vicki

[MikeForsythe 0]

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Dogs are much like men… positive reinforcement is nearly always the best way. Reward good behaviour!

BINGO!

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[SniperCJ 0]

Cant offer a whole lot of help except to say that different dogs need different discipline methods. You didnt specify what breed of dog.

My Lab / Heeler mix hates water so I use a squirt bottle to discipline him. My AmStaff needs more coersion and physical discipline doesnt work at all (she has a body like a brick and thinks youre playing).

Also, I reserve the command 'NO' for serious stuff. If I say NO firmly its means stop RIGHT NOW! I use other commands for routine stuff. "Down", "Back", and a little grunt noise gets pretty good response because they know theyre doping something I dont like.

Good luck at doggie school!

[Hooknswoop 19]

We limit the number of command words w/ Sherpa.

Off = "Knock it off", whatever you are doing, stop it.
Sit = Sit until I tell you otherwise
Down = Lay down until I tell you otherwise
Come = stay be my left side, shoulder blades within 1 foot of my knee until I tell you otherwise
Place = find something to sit on like a rock, tree stump and sit there until I tell you otherwise
Go Play = go do whatever you want
Wait = Don't go through the door, exit the car, whatever until I tell you

We use an electric collar, not as punishment, but as a replacement for a leash to get his attention.

Check out www.sithappens.com

Derek

[skycat 0]

Quote

We limit the number of command words w/ Sherpa.

Off = "Knock it off", whatever you are doing, stop it.
Sit = Sit until I tell you otherwise
Down = Lay down until I tell you otherwise
Come = stay be my left side, shoulder blades within 1 foot of my knee until I tell you otherwise
Place = find something to sit on like a rock, tree stump and sit there until I tell you otherwise
Go Play = go do whatever you want
Wait = Don't go through the door, exit the car, whatever until I tell you

We use an electric collar, not as punishment, but as a replacement for a leash to get his attention.

Check out www.sithappens.com

Derek

He forgot "with me" which is very handy when you want the dog to come with you/near you but it doesn't have to be by your left side.

A handy redirect command is rope(you can use toy or whatever), dog is doing something wrong like jumping on you or counter surfing you tell it off or no and then give it a new command like toy (go get your toy) then give tons of praise cause it is doing an appropriate behavior.

How to teach "Rope"

1) Put the rope/toy in his mouth while saying rope/toy when he takes it give him tons of praise and petting, after a minute or so if he hasn't already dropped it take it away and give him the command again putting it in his mouth. Continue doing this until he readily takes the toy.

2) Put the toy on the ground and give him the command if he takes it right away great, if not hold the toy in your hand moving it around while giving the command till he grabs it, if he won't grab it go back to step one and start over. Give him lots of praise and petting every time he does it right.

3) Now that he is grabbing the toy off the ground when you give the command and you are standing next to it, start to move him away from the toy. Have the toy on the ground and take him about 2 feet away from the toy and give him the command, if he is confused take him over to the toy and give him the command again. This part can take some time, but the goal is to be in another room from the toy give him the command and he will go get his toy.

As a bonus a training session like this will wear him out more than running ever will, since your dog is probably very smart I'm sure it will love it.

Fly it like you stole it!

[peregrinerose 0]

I like that toy thing. 2 of my dogs won't play with toys, but my greyhound loves it, so it will be easy to teach him.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[livendive 8]

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Dogs are much like men… positive reinforcement is nearly always the best way. Reward good behaviour!

Vicki

What she said. The goal of training is to teach, i.e. to impart learning. Punishment of any sort distresses the animal. A distressed mind is the least likely to learn.

Instead of punishing bad behavior, simply change the tone of your voice to scold, then teach commands like "off" and "leave it" and generously reward proper responses to those commands (even if they seem accidental). Personally, the closest I give to punishment is time-out when the situation is such that the dogs just can't contain themselves. A simple "on your bed" removes them from the activity, but without being so distressing that they avoid their beds at other times.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skymonkeytdyes 0]

I also have bog dogs, my boy Mojo I had from puppy and my girl, his sister I got after she was abused (stabbed in the face by 8 year old). First, run to the bookstore and buy Leader of the Pack. It's a highly recommended book about dog behavior with some very good examples of naughty doggie stuff.

You say, what's that sound coming out of the hole in the wood?

[PLFXpert 0]

Thanks, ya'll.

Based on all the responses it seems like I'm doing the right thing. My first job was in a vet clinic walking and washing and cleaning after the animals. I also taught children to swim for 2 years and, much like kids, animals learn by repetition, too, so I feel I have a good base in the meantime before obedience classes start.

I'm very much into animal welfare, rights, charities, and am mostly vegan as we've discussed in other threads.

I DEFINITELY agree with the positiv reinforcement and there would DEFINITELY never be spanking or anything even close to that nature. I can't even stand it when I see people pull on a dog's leash too hard to get him/her away from something.

We've been rewarding w/ small treats for going potty outside (which he's been VERY good at). He's only pee'd once in the house and it was before we had his crate and I put him in a room for 45 minutes while I left to run an errand. He'd just been walked, so needless to say, he did it out of hurt for me leaving. I did very gently, bring him over to the spot and tell him no, then took him for a walk and gave him a treat, as always, when he pee'd outside.

We give him treats when he goes into his "box" on his own when we tell him "go to your box".

Like a lot of ya'll said, we've been using many one-word commands like "come" and "up" and "down" and "easy" but since we dont' want him sick on treats, when he does those things well, which is most of the time, we just praise and praise and tell him he's such a good boy.

As far as punishment, I just didn't know, like if he doesn't listen to something, if you could give a command that they knew they were "in trouble" so to speak and they would have to go sit down away from everyone somewhere until you tell him to "come" again. But, maybe it's too early and continueing with the treats and praise will eventually make those moments fewer and farther between.

We really are blessed, as he's not had any training, but responds VERY well to us.

He's a mix, we think and the vet agrees, of boxer & beagle. Here's Cruzer's picture (taken at the animals shelter).

Much like one person said, though, he listens well when you're watching him, but turn your head for a second and he might do something he is not supposed to---mainly, he likes to grab my kitty's (we have two cats, but one is not very particular) favorite rope, despite that he has his own rope and a zillion other toys. He's been very good with the cats and the cats don't seem to mind him, but my kitty loves his rope, he carries it around everywhere with him and then leaves it in a "safe spot" which happens to be right in the middle of the area rug for all to see, and we want to make sure Sabre (my cat who wears a skydiving pin on his collar) knows that he is still king of the castle and we will make sure "his" area and favorite rope are off limits. Cruzer (our newly beloved doggie) will not grab the rope unless we're not watching him and then it's the first thing he goes for.

I mean, it's times like that, where other than saying "No" I don't know how to get him to stop b/c I can't give him a treat every time he walks by the rope without taking it.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[skycat 0]

Have you ever heard of NILIF (nothing in life is free)? http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

It's a way of helping your dog learn that you are Alpha, and will allow you to start to build the foundation needed to make training easier.

Be patient coming into a new house is stressful for everyone he needs time to adjust and learn that this truly is his new home. When he does do something bad you have to remember that unless you do the correction right when the bad behavior happened he isn't going to understand what he did wrong he is just going to know that Mom is mad at me which isn't good if he is shy. Two words when it comes to training....timing and consistency.

Is there any specific behavior that he is doing that you would like to change, cause without knowing what the problem is it's hard to give you training hints?

Fly it like you stole it!

[TequilaGirl 0]

You are not Alpha - I am!!!!

[skycat 0]

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You are not Alpha - I am!!!!

BWAHAHAA....don't make me spank you.

Fly it like you stole it!

[TequilaGirl 0]

I have to constantly remind my little pug that she not the Alpha dog in the house....

• Quote

[skycat 0]

LOL...your little pug is just imitating Mom.

Fly it like you stole it!

[PLFXpert 0]

Oh my gosh--so funny reading my old posts.

Quote

Have you ever heard of NILIF (nothing in life is free)?

Yes! It is fantastic!

We never did complete training as the trainer did not show twice in a row and we were doing really well on our own.

First, let me say when we first adopted Roo (Cruzer) he learned very quickly. It took several weeks to get a tail wag and for him to "play" with us, but after that it really was smooth sailing...

So, we have been thinking about adopting another for a long time and I made the mistake of doing a search on Petfinder.com to play around. I think we found our girl, but I do not want to say too much more yet. She is currently enrolled in an inmate program a couple hours away and will not be available for a few weeks...

Cruzer clearly loves other dogs--so much so that listening to us becomes "optional" when he is off-leash on the beach and sees another dog.

With the idea of adopting another comes the closer look at your own. Bill (my hunny) and I are always jealous of the other dog-owners on the beach whose dogs are walking unleashed right near their owners. They are not running off and going bananas like Cruz (eventually he always comes back, but on his own accord).

So, we started NILF and went even further by going on
I am only posting because such a simple thing (pack walks) has made such a big difference in our mutt-person relationship. He is still spoiled, but now when we walk on the beach he does not run off even when he sees another dog.

The difference is now he knows who is "alpha" and is did not take a prong collar, a shock collar or choke collar (none of which I support, and never tried). We simply got rid of the harness, bought a separate "comfort collar" we put snuggly higher up on his neck than his regular collar and used a shorter leash vs. his extended leash we used previously. It only took a few days (Cruzer goes for a two or three-mile run with us every morning and gets a long walk or bike ride every evening) for him to really get the hang of it without us having to give a tug and a firm "Hey!" all the time.

There are many other links at the bottom of the particular article I linked to on [url "http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/">Dog Breed Info Center. I have read many, but not all, and found it to be a bit of a revelation. I spend so much time researching and learning about animal welfare, it seems silly I was doing some very basic things incorrectly with my beloved mutt. While I like a lot about what the website says, I admit I do not follow all their rules (I can not possibly ignore my dog when I first come home. He is excited, I am excited and we hug, kiss and go bananas together and it has not seemed to hurt anything else, so screw it. )

Hope the info helps some other dog-owners who are like-minded in wanting the best for their mutts, and using positive-reinforcements to train.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[skycat 0]

Oh wow, blast from the past thread.

4 years later Sherpa is still extremely reliable off lead and greets me ever day at the door with a toy. Interestingly enough he was supposed to be the pre-replacement for my 11 year old dog who I was sure was on her last leg. Hmmm, she is 15 now and still kicking his butt. LOL

Fly it like you stole it!

[kj126 0]

Thought after losing my other 2 labs I would not get another but 4 yrs later I picked up my 4 mo old chocolate Lab on Sat.

Guess I need to go ahead and buy new garden hoses and at least one pair of shoes., haha

I Am Sofa King We Todd Did!!