billvon 2,991 #76 August 6, 2009 >So, the extra work is due to making cars more efficient, and "reducing the >carbon footprint." And giving them bigger air conditioners, and putting in a "HEPA air filter" for sensitive noses, and putting in the bigger alternator to run the DVD video system for the kids, and making the car "look faster" by tweaking the front end design. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #77 August 6, 2009 Quote The Probe was a Mazda. Seriously. Much like the Explorer II series. Mazda NavajoDivot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broke 0 #78 August 6, 2009 not to mention most of the anti pollution devices added to cars wind up making most of the less fuel efficient.Divot your source for all things Hillbilly. Anvil Brother 84 SCR 14192 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #79 August 6, 2009 Quote and putting in the bigger alternator to run the DVD video system for the kids OK, so for me I draw the line here. Am I the only one who finds TVs & DVD systems in cars, silly? My best friend (my baby-godson's mama) does not have such a system in her Mercedes. She did mention having to sing "eee-yi, eee-yi oh" most of the way home from visiting us, though. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #80 August 6, 2009 I teach auto shop... I tell parents what some mechanics make when they give me the... "My kid is going to be a Doctor/Lawyer!!! Not some grease monkey auto mechanic." The fact of the matter is, auto mechanics today are highly paid well trained specialists. Not all are out to rip you off, but they will charge for their services. Some of my former students work in the area. They're making a good living. They've graduated from good tech schools like Wyo Tech, Dunwoody, UTI and the like. Very expensive and challenging. So, they're able to work on your "High Tech" vehicle. Be glad they became a mechanic. If you can't do it yourself, shut up and pay the man!!!! ... or, walk!Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheach 0 #81 August 6, 2009 any work done on an 03 cobra is redonkulously expensive. I woke up next to a blowup doll Ash....so what do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #82 August 6, 2009 >not to mention most of the anti pollution devices added to cars wind up making >most of the less fuel efficient. Fuel injection - increases efficiency Catalytic converter - does not reduce or increase efficiency (assuming it's not plugged etc.) Stochiometric combustion system (oxygen sensor/computer) - increases efficiency Vapor recovery system - increases efficiency Idle shutoff - increases efficiency Cylinder shutdown - increases efficiency CVCC/stratified charge system - increases efficiency EGR - increases efficiency Which anti pollution devices were you referring to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #83 August 7, 2009 SMOG pump Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #84 August 7, 2009 QuoteSMOG pump Good question? look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_air_injection Original smog pumps decreased perfomance in that the pump was run by the engine. I believe the newer designs are a wash. One more example of why your paying so much for todays well trained (hopefully) auto mechs. These guys need to have knowlege and skills!! If you can't change the plugs yourself, Shut up and pay the Man!!Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #85 August 7, 2009 QuoteSMOG pump It takes about 1HP to run a properly functioning air pump, which would be about .5 pounds or .08 gallons of gasoline an hour. That's not enough to matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #86 August 7, 2009 >SMOG pump The "smog pump" (air injector) was a separate device that ran on a belt, and was used in 1960 and 1970 era cars that had carburetors. Nowadays, vehicles that require air injection do so via an aspirator valve, a device that sucks air in during negative-pressure pulses in the exhaust stream. This does not affect efficiency since it does not require any power to operate. As far as I know only motorcycles use them nowadays; cars use stochiometric ratio control to accomplish what the smog pump used to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 333 #87 August 7, 2009 QuoteSMOG pump With older generation (carburetor) engines, there was lots of unburned fuel in the exhaust, so the "smog pump" of the 60's and 70's ran all the time, injecting air into the exhaust to burn that fuel. On modern engines, the AIR system only runs at cold startup for about a minute, to speed up the time for the catalytic converter to come up to operating temperature. Adds cost, but no real effect on efficiency. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #88 August 7, 2009 Quote John and Kallend Having also restored a vehicle built in the halcyon days of the British motor industry (MGA Twincam) I bow my head to you, for you two also know why the British motor industry is no more and that there are more painful and pointless things to do than banging your head into a brick wall.That said, they sure are pretty carsBilly....MGA Old, check Carburettors, check Space.......ummmmm nope! Pics of mine HERE.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #89 August 7, 2009 Quote Quote SMOG pump Good question? look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_air_injection Original smog pumps decreased perfomance in that the pump was run by the engine. I believe the newer designs are a wash. One more example of why your paying so much for todays well trained (hopefully) auto mechs. These guys need to have knowlege and skills!! If you can't change the plugs yourself, Shut up and pay the Man!! I am one of those "WELL PAID" dealership auto technicians. I got to tell you, If I was not making the money I am making, you guys would be left with some $10 an hour techs that are not even worth that much money. It is me, that is able to teach them to help keep the cost's down. $300 bucks for plugs for most v6 engines these days is not a bad deal. if you dont like it, do it yourself. it is like having one of those $10 an hour techs doing it without the supervision of somone like me. when you fuck it up, come see me, I will charge you 3X as much to fix your fuckup. unelss, of course, your Thanatos340, then I will just stop by your house and tell you your being a paranoid bitch and that you should make me a sammich! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 333 #90 August 7, 2009 Quote $300 bucks for plugs for most v6 engines these days is not a bad deal. If they are readily accessible, it is not a good deal. If they are not, it is a bad deal, but it is the fault of the manufacturer, not the service tech. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #91 August 7, 2009 Quote Quote $300 bucks for plugs for most v6 engines these days is not a bad deal. If they are readily accessible, it is not a good deal. If they are not, it is a bad deal, but it is the fault of the manufacturer, not the service tech. most are not nowadays. give me the make, model, and engine size and I will look it up on ALLDATA. if you do not know what ALLDATA is, it is just another of one of those services I have to pay for along with the $150,000 of tools I have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hackish 8 #92 August 7, 2009 Quote when you fuck it up, come see me, I will charge you 3X as much to fix your fuckup. Haha. Fortunately I've never had to re-thread a cylinder head. I did see another shop remove plugs with an impact though! -Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scratch 0 #93 August 7, 2009 Quote Quote John and Kallend Having also restored a vehicle built in the halcyon days of the British motor industry (MGA Twincam) I bow my head to you, for you two also know why the British motor industry is no more and that there are more painful and pointless things to do than banging your head into a brick wall.That said, they sure are pretty carsBilly....MGA Old, check Carburettors, check Space.......ummmmm nope! Pics of mine HERE. Now THAT is beautiful....very nicely done Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #94 August 7, 2009 Quote And that's just labor, the plugs are extra. Jeez! Quote It costs $15000.00 a year to go to college! come on John The emision controls and gas milage requirements make the designs of todays engines very difficult to work on and the new stuff (thanks partially to Obama's new reqirements) will make it even harder to work on. Get out the credit cards car repairs are going to get alot more expensive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #95 August 7, 2009 Quote>not to mention most of the anti pollution devices added to cars wind up making >most of the less fuel efficient. Fuel injection - increases efficiency Catalytic converter - does not reduce or increase efficiency (assuming it's not plugged etc.) Stochiometric combustion system (oxygen sensor/computer) - increases efficiency Vapor recovery system - increases efficiency Idle shutoff - increases efficiency Cylinder shutdown - increases efficiency CVCC/stratified charge system - increases efficiency EGR - increases efficiency Which anti pollution devices were you referring to? Diesels can easily get about 20% better fuel milage by just adjusting the fuel control, unfortunately the nox emission skyrockets. cars have similar issues, getting better gas milage is not so hard, meeting emission ratings is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #96 August 7, 2009 >The emision controls and gas milage requirements make the designs >of todays engines very difficult to work on . . . . . . and much cleaner, faster, efficient and reliable. Not a bad tradeoff. (BTW no problem talking about cars, but please keep the political stuff in Speaker's.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #97 August 7, 2009 >Diesels can easily get about 20% better fuel milage by just adjusting the fuel control . . . Agreed. In diesels, the fuel control is the gas pedal. Take your foot off the gas pedal and your mileage will indeed increase. Or drive with a lead foot and waste fuel. Your choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybill 22 #98 August 8, 2009 Quote And that's just labor, the plugs are extra. Jeez
