Reserve pad or handle

[offlander 0]

Please can you help me! My rig came with a reserve pad on which I had taken off and a handle put on. Since gaining more experience and speaking to people with pads it seems to be a better idea as the likelihood of a premature reserve ride seems more likely than a mal. People with handles seem adamant a handle is the only way to go. Please can you help and offer any advice/experience you may have!

[rehmwa 2]

Don't be surprised, people withe pads will tell you pads are better. People with handles, handles.

Decide what you want since you now have both (some things to think on - snag factor vs ease of grasp, looks.... that's about it for me, someone with more insight will have more input). Just keep it tucked in, clean and well maintained.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[davelepka 4]

OK, how about this, are you going to slack on protecing your handles if you have a pad? People have pulled others cutaway handles as well as reserve ripcords. If they can pull a soft handle on the right side, they can pull one on the left.

So if you have spend as much time protecing a soft handle as a D ring, why not take the ease of operation that comes with the D ring?

Soft handle:

Locate, grasp, peel, and puch

D ring:

Locate, grap, and punch

The D ring has one less step, and the 'grasp' step with the soft handle has proven problematic for others in the past.

[JohnRich 4]

And a handle won't accidentally fold back underneath your main lift web, out of sight.

[mjosparky 4]

I have been jumping a handle on both sides since I first went to a pig rig. At first it was a main ripcord on the right and a reserve ripcord on the left, both inboard. When single point release came about I stayed with handles. I have done gorilla 10 way exits, chunked pieces out of a tailgate and done CREW. I have never had a handle snag or get pulled. But I have seen people go in trying to locate a soft pud that had folded under the MLW. New and different is not always better. Often new and different starts out as a fashion statement or for ease in production. Only after the fact do people come up with ways to justify its use.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerrob 643]

Call me old and grumpy, but in 1979, a skydive went badly. I pulled a silver reserve handle and I lived.
Since then I have survived 17 more malfunctions, all with metal reserve handles.
'nuf said.

[Newbie 0]

I think also look at what sort of angles of flight you will be taking, what grips you will be taking, what exits you will be making etc - pads are more common for freeflyers because of this.

I still use a handle - but i think will probably opt for 2 soft pillows at some point down the line. I researched this and many people said wait until after your first mal before changing, which i think is beneficial (you know you can handle the stressful situation with a handle, which is what you were trained on) as well as perhaps not (you were trained on a handle but after your mal you will switch to something different).

Anyway i'm quite happy freeflying with a handle right now - i just don't do any train exits anymore because i feel a foot could get in there and have read about cases where that's happened.

You could consider a low profile handle too perhaps? As the others said, if you do opt for something lower profile/less snaggable, it would equate to even more EP practice (i still run through mine once or twice on the ground on every jump to keep the old muscle memory there). Check out other peoples rigs, try them on, perhaps see what you like the feel of too? Could be useful - if you don't like something on the ground, chances are you won't be happy with it in the air.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Ron 10]

Quote

Please can you help me! My rig came with a reserve pad on which I had taken off and a handle put on. Since gaining more experience and speaking to people with pads it seems to be a better idea as the likelihood of a premature reserve ride seems more likely than a mal.

Really?

I have 3600 jumps.....6 mals and not ONE premature reserve ride. Most of those 3600 jumps were on handles.

My malfunction ratio is 1:600
My premature ratio is 0:3600

If you ask around you will see that more people have had mals than prematures.

Having said that...My new rig has a pad...Why? It came with it, and I didn't bother to change it.

I am actually thinking of getting a handle for it STILL.

When low,fast, and a few seconds left till I die, I'd rather be looking for a metal handle.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[davelepka 4]

Quote

I think also look at what sort of angles of flight you will be taking, what grips you will be taking,

Not really. I've never had a problem with a D ring handle flying at any angle you could imagine. As for grips taken, if plan on letting someone take a grip on your MLW, your problem is not with the type of handle you are using, it's with your judgement.

Jumpsuits have grippers, those are for gripping. Rigs don't have grippers for a reason.

[Newbie 0]

cool - the voice of experience counts for a lot. Thanks for educating

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[ryoder 1,590]

I recall a thread in which BillBooth stated that his research indicated a jumper with a pad takes, (on average), ~500' more altitude to activate the reserve than a jumper with a rigid handle.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[CReWLL 0]

When you look down and see two pads, and start looking for which one has a yellow or red cable coming from it, instead of a silver cable, you WILL develop a preference. When it's time to use either of those devices, it's best to keep it simple.

[CReWLL 0]

When you look down and see two pads, and start looking for which one has a yellow or red cable coming from it, instead of a silver cable, you WILL develop a preference. When it's time to use either of those devices, it's best to keep it simple.

[tcnelson 1]

i think most folks can remember that the cutaway is on the right and that the res. is on the left. people react differently to stressful situations though. the most important thing is to not panic. after that, actions are much more clear and quick.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[nicknitro71 0]

Your call but the idea is to have different "feels" for different handles.

Take the Sigma tandem rig fro instance, that is designed for safety and operate it by experienced jumpers: the drogue has a different feel than the L or R release, the cutway has a different feel and also color than the reserve rip cord.

Nowadays you can get a low profile sliver handle that has the pro of both: different feel/look and the additional passive "security" of the pud.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[crazydiver 0]

I've seen premature reserve deployments taht could have been prevented by using a soft handle. It was a head down jump and my friend transitioned to a sit and as he did it his hand caught her reserve ripcord handle. THat probably wouldn't have caught it if it was a pillow. I know I shouldn't get into "coulds and woulds and shoulds" but in my opinion, doing a lot of freeflying begins to warrant a higher need for a pillow.

A high number of people who are going to tell you to use a silver handle will use the reason of wanted to grab through something for a better grip in a spinning mal to give you more pull force during G's, but keep in mind that many of those people are jumping larger canopies where that isn't even that likely.

Dont think i'm bashing on classic ways, its just that for anyone doing freeflying, and RS as well, a d ring is much easier snagged than a pillow.

My 2 cents.

Cheers,
Travis

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

A high number of people who are going to tell you to use a silver handle will use the reason of wanted to grab through something for a better grip in a spinning mal to give you more pull force during G's, but keep in mind that many of those people are jumping larger canopies where that isn't even that likely.

You don't need a better grip on the reserve handle in a spinning mal, you need a better grip on the cutaway handle.

If grip was the driving force for handle selection, it would make more sense to put the D-ring on the cutaway handle and the pad on the reserve handle since the cutaway handle is the harder handle to pull.

Reserve pad vs. D-ring is a trade off, easier to grab and pull a D-ring, but also easier to snag for the same reasons. Pad is harder to grab and pull, but harder to snag for the same reasons.

Since the cutaway handle is harder to pull and a pad works fine, and I always could remember my left from my right, a pad reserve handle always wroked great for me.

Derek

[crazydiver 0]

Quote

You don't need a better grip on the reserve handle in a spinning mal, you need a better grip on the cutaway handle.

Oh ya. Duh. It was early. I've got a new motto...don't post while still tired. :) What the hell was I thinking.

Cheers,
Travis

[Andy9o8 2]

I've always been concerned that if the shit hit the fan I might find a reserve pillow "tucked under" and hard to grab, so that's why I prefer the d-ring.

[kelpdiver 2]

Wings has been offering a free alternative 'smaller profile metal reserve handle' that might reach the middle ground for people worried about accidental pulls. Less than a inch gap exposed.

[billbooth 10]

If you have severe line twists in front of your face, you just might find those two pud handles pushed a lot closer together than you might like when you need to determine which is which. Plus, if you ride that spinner long enough, your vision might become very limited, or even non-existent. If you wear a full face helmut, you might not even be able to see your reserve handle after a breakaway in the first place, and if you wear gloves, you might not be able to feel it. I am beginning to think that an RSL should be REQUIRED on rigs with pud reserve handles.

[hookitt 1]

I've had severe line twists just like you described. There was no issue grabbing the handles and they were certainly closer together. One is a nice firm cutaway handle the other is a Cordura covered Pipe.

One is on the right, and the other on the left.

If the harness is too big, or a body style is such that it allows the harness to move around under high G's, then the handles probably would be closer as you describe.

If the "soft" handle is truly soft (think original javelin soft reserve handle), that's quite possibly an issue. If it is soft ...the handle should be replaced. If the Cutaway handle isn't nice and firm as well ... it too should be replaced.

I'm not sure how a person wouldn't feel a pipe if they could feel the cutaway handle first while in a violent spin. I think the real issue is whether or not the person is going to try and get stable for too long if he tumbles after breakaway.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I've always been concerned that if the shit hit the fan I might find a reserve pillow "tucked under" and hard to grab, so that's why I prefer the d-ring.

Do you have a pillow for a cutaway handle? Have you ever been concerned that your cutaway handle would be tucked under the main lift web if you ever needed it?

Derek

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

If you have severe line twists in front of your face, you just might find those two pud handles pushed a lot closer together than you might like when you need to determine which is which. Plus, if you ride that spinner long enough, your vision might become very limited, or even non-existent. If you wear a full face helmut, you might not even be able to see your reserve handle after a breakaway in the first place, and if you wear gloves, you might not be able to feel it. I am beginning to think that an RSL should be REQUIRED on rigs with pud reserve handles.

I have 9 live cutaways on very highly loaded canopies with a black rig with black cutaway handle and black reserve pillows, wearing black gloves. I've never seen my handles on a live cutaway on a sport rig. Every time I needed them, they were already in my hands.

Derek

[EvilLurker 2]

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Do you have a pillow for a cutaway handle? Have you ever been concerned that your cutaway handle would be tucked under the main lift web if you ever needed it?

I had a JM catch that on my rig once. I would have caught it prior to jumping, since I always touch my handles in the aircraft, but it got my attention. I'd rather have a metal D-ring on each side, but then I wouldn't be "cool".