Been out for 20+ years

[Master_Yoda 0]

I'm a D license holder with 525 jumps. I learned using the S/L progression. I last jumped regularly in the spring of '90 with only a few jumps since, the last being around '97 I think.
I'm very confident I can quickly get back up to speed. And I know the basics such as a stable exit, simple maneuvers and pulling at the proper altitude would be no problem at all. My canopy control should be fairly good as I was a demo jumper and spent almost a month in GK tryouts being trained by the best.

Just curious as to what kind of recurrency jumps to expect when I can finally come back to the sport. What would you recommend as an instructor or s&ta? Is there a new USPA standard? Or do you guys make it up on a case by case basis?

I did notice the changes in license requirements for D license applicants. 500 jumps now! It was only 200 when I got mine in '88.

[Andy9o8 2]

Welcome back. A frequently-discussed topic.

Here are the USPA's recurrency guidelines.

http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section5/tabid/168/Default.aspx#970

And here are some discussions on this site about recurrency, in no particular order or emphasis:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=recurrency&search_type=AND&search_fields=sb&search_time=&search_user_username=&sb=post_time&mh=500

[mrbiceps 0]

It would depend on what dz u go to, At my dz they would probably just send u up with an instructor for your first jump to see that u are stable and can pull at a good height and know what u are doing and u would be good to go.

[PhreeZone 20]

For the most part skydiving has not changed too much from the mid 90's until now. Gravity still works the same so that's a good thing!

There have been a lot of updates to the sport and things will be a little different when you hit the DZ but for the most part its not a huge change. The biggest things are ZP material is on just about all main canopies now. This mean that every jumper will be on a canopy that is smaller then the average canopy when the only material option was F-111. Canopies now come in sizes 79-253 sq ft so things are a lot faster then they were 15 years ago for canopy flight. Even students are flying 190-250 size 9 cell canopies. AAD's are about standard on all jumpers by choice. The CYPRES really changed jumping and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone using something other then a new electronic AAD. Wind Tunnels have changed the sport also, with the availability of cheap body flight time its really allowed people to train and fly better in the air then was possible years ago. Now even your average 100 jump person can outfly what was great jumpers from the 90's if they have enough tunnel time. Also there are minor things like seat belts are now required to be used on all airplanes and things like that.

For the re-currency the USPA spells out that you need to do a few things like jump with an instructor on your first re-currency jump. For your ease the DZ may have you sit in on a First jump course again to be a refresher over all the items like emergency landings, two canopy out situations, landing patterns, and everything else.

Welcome back to the sky!

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Master_Yoda 0]

OK. Thanks guys. It looks like it's up to interpretation as to what getting current again would require.
I figured a ground school refresher then a clear & pull to make the S&TA and DZ manager happy would be enough and that looks to be about right.
I was kinda concerned someone would tell me to do the S/L progression again which seemed pretty damned silly. (just a money maker for the I's & jm's)

It's amazing all the progress the sport has made while I've been away. Freeflying and wingsuits are of particular interest!

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

I doubt that your recurrency jump will be a clear and pull. Expect a jump that looks a lot more like an A-license check jump. Critical tasks will probably include:

Do you keep yourself stable in freefall?
Do you recover stability after deliberately going back to earth?
Do you demonstrate altitude awareness?
Do you deploy your main on time, while maintaining stability?
Do you fly a safe pattern under canopy?
Do you land safely?

What is a "JM"? (They are no more in USPA.)

this is a good start for your ground review:
http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/Downloads/Safety_Day_Check_List.pdf

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[PhreeZone 20]

When you were jumping were you using a ROL, BOC or ripcord for your deployment method? With everything now only being a BOC design if you used to jump something else make sure you get lots of training on that since it will be a different deployment method and that has caused lots of issues with people moving from one to the other.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Master_Yoda 0]

Good question and something I've been considering.
I was using an ROL deployment on my Talon and had no problems with it. And I liked that I could always take a quick look at it if for some reason I couldn't find it at pull time. But I never did have to look for it. It was always there.
However after looking at a few pics recently I realized that in a belly to earth arch the location between an ROL and BOC is only inches apart. It really shouldn't be much of an adjustment. And after reading about the gear requirements for wingsuit flying, it appears the BOC is a must. There is also the issue of the bridle coming loose from the velcro when free flying.
So doing the math is pretty simple. I need to get a rig and wear it around the house doing occasional DRCPs to get my muscle memory trained on where that handle is before coming out to the DZ.

[theonlyski 8]

If you still have that ROL rig, depending on which rig it is, I believe a master rigger can convert it to BOC.

Check with them though to be sure.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[in2jumping 0]

What I found after a long 8+ year layoff was that freefall skills came back very quickly but canopy skills will take quite a bit of time and jumps to build back up your timing and judgment.

[stratostar 5]

Quote

I need to get a rig and wear it around the house doing occasional DRCPs to get my muscle memory trained on where that handle is before coming out to the DZ.

That is a good idea and will come in handy for the 3 DRCP's you'll do on the S/L jumps after your retraining.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[ufk22 33]

What I would recommend;
First jump course, not sit through, but as a participant.
A little extra EP procedure review in the harness
At least 1 prcp, if training S/L
At least 1 full altitude recurency jump, maybe more. 1st one for stability and altitude awareness, probably at least 1 more that resembled an A-licnce check dive.
EP review prior to EACH jump, then again after the next 5-10 jumps, assuming a short time frame. If the next jumps get spread out, EP review the next 3 or 4 times you come out to jump.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

If you still have that ROL rig, depending on which rig it is, I believe a master rigger can convert it to BOC.

Check with them though to be sure.

I have a Talon that still has the ROL pouch on the legstrap, in addition to the BOC pouch that I use. Oddly enough, the ROL pouch is in fine shape, and I had to have the BOC pouch replaced last year.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Master_Yoda 0]

Quote

What I would recommend;
First jump course, not sit through, but as a participant.
A little extra EP procedure review in the harness

Not unreasonable at all considering the time.

Quote

At least 1 prcp, if training S/L

Nah. But a clear & pull using my own rig is acceptable.

Quote

At least 1 full altitude recurency jump, maybe more. 1st one for stability and altitude awareness, probably at least 1 more that resembled an A-licnce check dive.

I'm quite confident I could show a clean poised stable exit and do the RT, LT, BL, RBR, LBR, FL & track to achieve 100' separation from the reviewer and pull to clear the first of the A license requirements.

And a few two way jumps is not unreasonable either. Though I think that can be done on my own with a recent AFF grad or whatever. No instructor required.

Quote

EP review prior to EACH jump, then again after the next 5-10 jumps, assuming a short time frame. If the next jumps get spread out, EP review the next 3 or 4 times you come out to jump.

Review of EPs is never a bad thing. As I recall I reviewed them in my head before every jump. But formal review like you mention seems a bit much.

My plan so far is to show up on the DZ and get some canopy coaching at basically the same time I get current. So any canopy control issues will be taken care of then.

[PhreeZone 20]

Quote

I'm quite confident I could show a clean poised stable exit and do the RT, LT, BL, RBR, LBR, FL & track to achieve 100' separation from the reviewer and pull to clear the first of the A license requirements.

And a few two way jumps is not unreasonable either. Though I think that can be done on my own with a recent AFF grad or whatever. No instructor required.

I've had the same response by a few other people I've taken up on re-currency jumps and more then once I've had to dock on them to get them stable again since they got into mild turns that they couldn't get stopped despite trying.

To jump with a "Recent AFF Grad" you will now need to have either a coach rating or a D license and be waivered by the S&TA. You would be able to jump with an A license holder once you meet the currency requirements again.

PER the USPA SIM for your license level:

Quote

C and D License
USPA C- and D-license holders who have not made a freefall skydive within the preceding six months should make at least one jump under the supervision of a USPA instructional rating holder until demonstrating the ability to safely exercise the privileges of that license.

That direct supervision can either be on a clear and pull with the instructor watching all aspects or on an Instructor freefall jump. Depending on the DZ will dictate your option (most I've dealt with go for the free fall option) but you will probably need to have at least a single instructor jump to make sure you have no issues before getting turned loose again. With you changing deployment methods and such a long lay off do not be surprised if you will be asked to do an A license check dive with some practice touches in there to make sure you don't have issues.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Master_Yoda 0]

Quote

If you still have that ROL rig, depending on which rig it is, I believe a master rigger can convert it to BOC.

Check with them though to be sure.

I wish I still had that rig. I sold it many years ago.
The funny thing is I dreamt about that rig all night last night. It was so vivid I was convinced that when I opened my eyes it would be sitting in the corner of my bedroom waiting for me.

[Master_Yoda 0]

Interesting requirement for AFF grads to only jump with coaches or D license holders with an S&TA waiver.
Times have changed. No big deal. I just figured not many license holders would want to do a simple two way.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Quote

Interesting requirement for AFF grads to only jump with coaches or D license holders with an S&TA waiver.
Times have changed. No big deal. I just figured not many license holders would want to do a simple two way.

Keep in mind that an "AFF Grad" is still a student, with something above 7 jumps (depending on how many repeats). Because they are still on student status, they need to either jump solo, or with someone qualified to be an "instuctor".

New A license holders who still need coach help will almost always be willing to do a 2-way with a more experienced jumper. I know I was.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[faulknerwn 38]

If you come up to Temple where we are, we're jumping Cessnas, so its pretty easy to find people willing to do a 2-way..

[Trae 1]

Just curious as to what kind of recurrency jumps to expect when I can finally come back to the sport.
.....................

Can I recommend you do some solos first .
It is such a nice feeling after a layoff to meet the sky alone again first up.
You can construct your own recurrency dives focusing on whatever skills you want .
Dumping high if poss gets you reacquainted with your canopy and the aerial environment.

[Master_Yoda 0]

Quote

You can construct your own recurrency dives focusing on whatever skills you want .
Dumping high if poss gets you reacquainted with your canopy and the aerial environment.

That's more or less what it seems to come down to. Interpreting the BSRs is up to both the DZ S&TA, the instructor and me.

There was a well meaning instructor from a DZ a few hours away (who shall remain nameless ) who said in a PM that I should re-take the entire first jump course with all the subsequent levels.
I can purdy much asure you that THAT ain't gonna happen. I've read the BSRs and the current license requirements and have come to one conclusion. I have a D license and once I have made ONE jump, I am, as far as USPA is concerned, current.

Technical issues aside I'm smart enough to know that one jump isn't gonna bring all my skills flooding back as sharp as they were when I was 23 years old. I plan on getting canopy coaching immediately and maybe a little flat rw coaching and a bunch of free flying coaching. I'm NOT gonna go looking for the first 20 way and say "Let me play!" Ummm... NO.

Blue skies my friends and thanks for all the kind and thoughtful advice. I appreciate it. Chris

[BASE469 0]

I think you need to go back an re-read what is written in the SIM

D. Long lay-offs
1. Jumpers should receive refresher training appropriate
for their skydiving history and time since their last
skydive.
a. Jumpers who were very experienced and
current but became inactive for a year or more
should undergo thorough training upon returning
to the sport.
b. Skydivers who historically jump infrequently
should review training after layoffs of even less
than a year.

Quite frankly, 500 jumps really isn't jack shit in the big scheme of things,,,,especially after 20 years of inactivity...to blatantly rule out sitting through a first jump course suggests that your ego is out of control.
Furthermore, to even imply that instuctors are trying to gouge you for money is inane....I spend my days trying progress the people that pay me to teach them to skydive so that I can move on to next person coming along. Indeed, I think there are more than a few jumpers that can attest to the fact that I spend my time and money trying to make them a better skydiver. I really hope that you decide to jump at DZ other than mine as your mentality suggests that you will be nothing but a danger to me and those that I care about.
If you expect me to sign off your alleged skills that 'purdy' much isn't going to happen.

edit for spelling mistake

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Interpreting the BSRs is up to both the DZ S&TA, the instructor and me.

That's where you're wrong. Well, to can interpret the BSRs all you want, in the end the only opinion that counts is the DZOs. It's his sandbox, and if he tells you it's ten recurrency jumps or the high road, then it's ten recurrency jumps or the high road. What you think of it all, or what you want to do is of little importance, it's what the DZO wants you to do that gets you up in the air, or back in your car.

If you walk in with a good attitude, and don't try to tell the DZ staff how to do their job, you can expect them to work with you as best they can. I would fully expect to sit through some refresher training, be it as part of a FJC or just a one-on-one session with an instructor. There's a fair chance they'll want you to take the FJC written test, so they see if they (or you) missed anything.

Once that's out of the way, you're probably looking at a first jump back with one instructor and it will include some practice touches with your new PC location, and most likely some turns and docks. Provided that goes well, you should be cut loose as a current D license holder. What you do with that is up to you, but you seem to get the idea that you'll need a little 'air time' to get back on top of your game.

Keep mind there's a fair chance you be dealing with instructors, DZOs, and S&TAs who started jumping after you quit 20 years ago. To them, you're an old timer who hasn't jumped since the olden days. You won't get very far telling them how to do their jobs in the present day, where they're in charge, and you're some random old guy asking about frap hats (nothing wong with frap hats). Just realize that skydiving has gone through some changes in the training, procedures and the equipment. There's a lot you need to be updated on, and these are the people that are going to help you get up to speed.

[4dbill 0]

After approximately 3400 jumps, I 'retired' from the sport 12 years ago. I then got the itch again last August, mainly due to technological advancement in canopy swooping and freefall photography -- two disciplines I enjoyed the most. When I showed up at a very conservative dropzone for a refresher, I was required to do a practice touch AFF Level 5 with an instructor and a student gear, which went just fine. I think sitting through the whole first jump course would have been an overkill, but I guess it would depend on the jumper.

4DBill
http://4dbill.com

[Master_Yoda 0]

Quote

Quote

Interpreting the BSRs is up to both the DZ S&TA, the instructor and me.

Quote

That's where you're wrong. Well, to can interpret the BSRs all you want, in the end the only opinion that counts is the DZOs. It's his sandbox, and if he tells you it's ten recurrency jumps or the high road, then it's ten recurrency jumps or the high road. What you think of it all, or what you want to do is of little importance, it's what the DZO wants you to do that gets you up in the air, or back in your car.

1st - Don't get me wrong. Your absolutely right that it is his sandbox. The DZO is the man in charge. That said, if what he wants and what I want are two different things, I can always hit the "high road". No problem. And that's my point as well. There are plenty of dropzones in Texas. And plenty of Instructors with far more experience than the knucklehead skygod who posted above you.
2nd - The BSRs specifically say "should" not "must" in their descriptions of what a license holder should do to get current.

Quote

If you walk in with a good attitude, and don't try to tell the DZ staff how to do their job, you can expect them to work with you as best they can. I would fully expect to sit through some refresher training, be it as part of a FJC or just a one-on-one session with an instructor. There's a fair chance they'll want you to take the FJC written test, so they see if they (or you) missed anything.

I have no issues with sitting in on a ground course or even spending time in a harness showing him I know where my handles are and when and how to use them(EPs).

What I'm talking about is having to go thru ground school, then 5 S/L jumps with 3 DRCPs, 1 C&P, 3- 5 sec delays, 3- 10 sec delays, 3- 15 sec delays, 3- 20 sec delays and 3- 30 sec delays before an instructor is willing to sign me off! I will simply go somewhere else. And that DZ would lose my business. So It really is a two-way street. A DZ could try and soak me for student jumps now or they can rake in my money on regular lift tickets later.

Quote

Once that's out of the way, you're probably looking at a first jump back with one instructor and it will include some practice touches with your new PC location, and most likely some turns and docks.

Now THAT is exactly what I would expect. And no less.

Quote

Provided that goes well, you should be cut loose as a current D license holder. What you do with that is up to you, but you seem to get the idea that you'll need a little 'air time' to get back on top of your game.

Which is why I plan on hiring coaches.

Quote

Keep mind there's a fair chance you be dealing with instructors, DZOs, and S&TAs who started jumping after you quit 20 years ago. To them, you're an old timer who hasn't jumped since the olden days.

The "olden days" are like yesterday to me. You know, back when they were snot nosed kids, jumping out of school buses!

Quote

You won't get very far telling them how to do their jobs in the present day, where they're in charge, and you're some random old guy asking about frap hats (nothing wong with frap hats). Just realize that skydiving has gone through some changes in the training, procedures and the equipment. There's a lot you need to be updated on, and these are the people that are going to help you get up to speed.

Sure training, procedures and equipment have changed. That's what ground school and a recurrency jump or two is for. Then it's the coaches job to make me a better skydiver than I was 20 years ago.

Gravity and the relative wind haven't changed a bit. So at least there's that.

Take care
Chris