muff528 3 #26 July 3, 2009 QuoteBesides the battery (which was checked) what are the main reasons why one would have trouble getting a car to start? My son has started having trouble with his car, a '98 Taurus. It sounds like it's trying to turn over, then it does a little chug and stops. It will do that on a few trys but when he lets the engine sit a minute or so, it will finally start. Thoughts? I'm trying not to put a lot of money in this car since it is such a clunker, I'm just not ready to get him a new one yet so I'm hoping this is something cheap. Does the Check Engine light come on? If so, you could probably have Auto Zone or Advance Auto Parts "read the codes" for you. I think they do this free or for a small charge. It may give you an idea where to start looking and whether or not the repairs will be costly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #27 July 3, 2009 Quote Quote If you want a good honest shop to take his car to a friend of my sisters is great. He is who my car sees... We do have an honest mechanic, a friend of my husband's, but he's on vacation. The nerve to go away on a holiday weekend! The car is pretty crappy, (the kind of car all kids should have for their first car!), so if this repair is more than $100, I'm probably not even going to bother with it and will look for something better. He needs a reliable car so he can come home and see his Mommy every weekend when he goes off to college anyway. Besides the starter, it could be a stuck relay. I had this problem once. A quick call to the dealership of my truck said to hit the relay while cranking. Use the handle end of a #2 phillips screwdriver to 'gently tap' the relay while trying to crank. (Strangely enough gently tapping was also a solution to get a hard drive to start up after a prolonged 'intermission'.) Remember you can always pull the starter & coil and have it checked at the local parts store for free. Relays are about 5-10 bucks. Some other things to check are the fuel filter and the O2 sensor. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpdude 0 #28 July 3, 2009 Check these out and you may find your problem. (1) Your "Coolant Temerature Sensor" This is a sensor that tells the Computer how hot or cold the engine is and the the computer regulates the fuel input based on that data. If this is bad, it could be telling the computer that engine is either 50 degrees below "0" or 250 above. If it's saying cold, it's like riding around with the choke on and will flood the engine, if it's saying hot, it will lean the fuel mixture out and cause overheating and no power. (2) Check your "MAP" Sensor. AKA "Manifold Air Pressure" Sensor. It tells the computer how much Pressure/Vacuum is in the Intake manifold. This is usually controlled by how much the throttle is open (Or who much you are pushing the gas pedal) (3) Check your "Mass Airflow Sensor". It is located in the breather ductwork near the air filter. It tells the computer how much air is flowing through the air filter. Don't mistake this for a clogged air filter. A clogged air filter will effect the performance of the engine, but unless it's completely blocked, probably by something like a piece of plastic, or trash bag, a clogged air filter is probably not the problem. The easiest way to diagnose an air filter issue is to simply remove it and try to start the car. If it starts, there's your problem. On some of the Fords, this will be a small "Square" shaped "Plate" looking object with 2 "Torx" type screws to secure it. Get the tool to remove it and a can of "Carburator Cleaner" (Spray can) Or preferrably "Brake/Electrical parts Cleaner" (Milder and don't damage plastic or rubber parts), and clean the little wires that stick out of the bottom of that sensor. Be careful if you remove that sensor, those wires that stick out of the bottom are very delicate and if you damage them, the problem will get worse. (4) Check your "Throttle Position Sensor". It is on the Throttle Body and tells the Computer how much you are pushing the gas pedal. It is probably not the problem, but has been known to cause these kind of problems. It is a mechanical sensor and does not read vacuum or air flow. It only reads throttle movement. All these sensors work together to regulate the flow of fuel to the injection system and the result is the fuel injected engine runs as good as they do now days. The old carburated engines didn't have these luxeries. These are the most common causes for your problem and none of them cost much to replace if you do it yourself The Coolant Temp sensor usually cost under $20-$30, the MAP is usually under $40, The TPS is usually under $40 and the most expensive, but usually not the problem can be as high as $300. Don't completely rule out the plugs, wires, fuel filter etc. They can and will cause problems, but it don't sound like this is your problemRefuse to Lose!!! Failure is NOT an option! 1800skyrideripoff.com Nashvilleskydiving.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dresherr 0 #29 July 3, 2009 +1 Hip Hip Hooray! It sounds like we have someone who knows what they are taking about!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpdude 0 #30 July 3, 2009 Quote+1 Hip Hip Hooray! It sounds like we have someone who knows what they are taking about!! Thank you. Been in the biz for 28 yrs.Refuse to Lose!!! Failure is NOT an option! 1800skyrideripoff.com Nashvilleskydiving.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #31 July 3, 2009 Careful on using carb cleaner on a MAF sensor. It can do damage. Much safer to use electrical component cleaner. Does just as good a job and won't damage the sensor. You can get it at the auto parts store. I had a problem with my Passat and was warned about carb cleaner.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpdude 0 #32 July 3, 2009 QuoteCareful on using carb cleaner on a MAF sensor. It can do damage. Much safer to use electrical component cleaner. Does just as good a job and won't damage the sensor. You can get it at the auto parts store. I had a problem with my Passat and was warned about carb cleaner. I actually prefer to use Brake Cleaner. Much milder, and you're right, no damage. I just said carb cleaner to keep it on topic so not to confuse anyone why I would say brake cleaner if we're working on the fuel system. I have encountered people in the past who want to think that brake cleaner will screw something up, so instead of getting in to that, I just kept it on topic. (if that makes sense) I went back and added brake/electrical parts cleaner to that post.Refuse to Lose!!! Failure is NOT an option! 1800skyrideripoff.com Nashvilleskydiving.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #33 July 3, 2009 QuotePhDs from MIT Pffft. Greatly overrated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dresherr 0 #34 July 3, 2009 Especially when you have Dropzone.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #35 July 3, 2009 Quote Quote +1 Hip Hip Hooray! It sounds like we have someone who knows what they are taking about!! Thank you. Been in the biz for 28 yrs. Yes you know what your talking about but it sounds like your a typical tech., over diagnosing (you know what i mean)!Mama It sounds like an electrical problem to me. Try to start the car with the dome lamp and head lights on. If they dim down real low and the car dosent turn over as well as without the lights on then it is an alectrical problem. Most commen problems is as others have said battery cables loose or coroded. Also loose connection at started or body ground. Btw there are a bunch of Auto Zone 101 answers on here! Try this part or this part, put a new one of these on thereNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpdude 0 #36 July 3, 2009 Quote Quote Quote +1 Hip Hip Hooray! It sounds like we have someone who knows what they are taking about!! Thank you. Been in the biz for 28 yrs. Yes you know what your talking about but it sounds like your a typical tech., over diagnosing (you know what i mean)!Mama It sounds like an electrical problem to me. Try to start the car with the dome lamp and head lights on. If they dim down real low and the car dosent turn over as well as without the lights on then it is an alectrical problem. Most commen problems is as others have said battery cables loose or coroded. Also loose connection at started or body ground. Btw there are a bunch of Auto Zone 101 answers on here! Try this part or this part, put a new one of these on there Nope, no over diagnosing, just offering the possibilities. I never said that any of those are definitely the problem and that any of those are going to have to be replaced. I merely said that those have been known to cause such problems as desribed by Skymama. In the description, there was nothing said to indicate that the starter would not crank the engine, or it was slow, AND She said that the battery had been checked, which a battery inspection normally includes the terminals and most of the time, the cables. (Unless I missed something)Refuse to Lose!!! Failure is NOT an option! 1800skyrideripoff.com Nashvilleskydiving.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #37 July 3, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote +1 Hip Hip Hooray! It sounds like we have someone who knows what they are taking about!! Thank you. Been in the biz for 28 yrs. Yes you know what your talking about but it sounds like your a typical tech., over diagnosing (you know what i mean)!Mama It sounds like an electrical problem to me. Try to start the car with the dome lamp and head lights on. If they dim down real low and the car dosent turn over as well as without the lights on then it is an alectrical problem. Most commen problems is as others have said battery cables loose or coroded. Also loose connection at started or body ground. Btw there are a bunch of Auto Zone 101 answers on here! Try this part or this part, put a new one of these on there Nope, no over diagnosing, just offering the possibilities. I never said that any of those are definitely the problem and that any of those are going to have to be replaced. I merely said that those have been known to cause such problems as desribed by Skymama. In the description, there was nothing said to indicate that the starter would not crank the engine, or it was slow, AND She said that the battery had been checked, which a battery inspection normally includes the terminals and most of the time, the cables. (Unless I missed something) We must have diff. opions of over daignosing then. I believe in starting with the bassics. She said it trys to start but chugs. Coming from a woman (no offence intended) I think she may be desribing as if its slughish to start. I also never said you said those things would fix it. You and i both know that if most of those sensors were the problem then it would have issues while running and the check engine light would be on since it is OBD 2 for sure.(even though she never said if it was on or off). I have known many other techs to over diaganos things that were common sense.Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dresherr 0 #38 July 3, 2009 I totally disagree. An engine coolant temp sensor may not throw the check engine light on right away. If bad, it makes the car hard to start and can very well make it run funny at idle for a short duration. Battery making a car chug while running???? Hmm... I think, even being a woman (which is a rude statement) she is describing the car troubles perfectly. I personally would put my money on an engine coolant temp sensor. Just my 2cents Edit: Oh and by hard to start I don't mean just turning over. It will act like it wants to start (like fire up 80% then cut out) After it does that all it does is turn over. You may even hear the fuel pump not even kick on. The fuel pump is NOT bad. That is the coolant temp sensor telling the computer to not send any more fuel to the engine. (that is why the fuel pump doesn't even bother) Then when it does start it may chug a lil while it's getting rid of all the extra shit in the cylinders. After that it runs smooth. If you shut it off then start it again (right away) it will start fine. But let it cool and it prolly will act up again. Or totally opposite: Only starts when cold... Let me know skymama what it was when you get it figured out. I am curious to see who was right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpdude 0 #39 July 3, 2009 I think that the most important element that we are all overlooking here is that we are trying to diagnose (so to speak) a problem via long distance. I think we can all agree that if we were able to see it, the problem very well could be anything that has been mentioned in this thread, ie, Battery, Alternator, Fuel filter or it could be anything that I listed. It's kinda like calling a doctor and saying "My Back hurts", He don't know if you've pulled a muscle, Broke your back, maybe a kidney problem or whatever. The bottom line is that without seeing it, it's really hard to make a solid assesment of the problem. Agree? Another element we have not got any info on is this, Fuel Pressure. Does it get adequate fuel pressure at any time during cranking or running, or is it intermittent or low? That's my 1/2 cents worth. (that's about all it's worth) Refuse to Lose!!! Failure is NOT an option! 1800skyrideripoff.com Nashvilleskydiving.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dresherr 0 #40 July 3, 2009 You don't think people are getting worked up over this, now do you??? :-) Edit: Skymama: Just make sure to clear the code (if there is one) with an OBDII scanner so the computer clears and then...Vroom! Off I go into victory. (Yes jumpdude you are correct of the newer models) :-) Whatcha think jumpdude?? No back-up here or what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #41 July 3, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote +1 Hip Hip Hooray! It sounds like we have someone who knows what they are taking about!! Thank you. Been in the biz for 28 yrs. Yes you know what your talking about but it sounds like your a typical tech., over diagnosing (you know what i mean)!Mama It sounds like an electrical problem to me. Try to start the car with the dome lamp and head lights on. If they dim down real low and the car dosent turn over as well as without the lights on then it is an alectrical problem. Most commen problems is as others have said battery cables loose or coroded. Also loose connection at started or body ground. Btw there are a bunch of Auto Zone 101 answers on here! Try this part or this part, put a new one of these on there Nope, no over diagnosing, just offering the possibilities. I never said that any of those are definitely the problem and that any of those are going to have to be replaced. I merely said that those have been known to cause such problems as desribed by Skymama. In the description, there was nothing said to indicate that the starter would not crank the engine, or it was slow, AND She said that the battery had been checked, which a battery inspection normally includes the terminals and most of the time, the cables. (Unless I missed something) We must have diff. opions of over daignosing then. I believe in starting with the bassics. She said it trys to start but chugs. Coming from a woman (no offence intended) I think she may be desribing as if its slughish to start. I also never said you said those things would fix it. You and i both know that if most of those sensors were the problem then it would have issues while running and the check engine light would be on since it is OBD 2 for sure.(even though she never said if it was on or off). I have known many other techs to over diaganos things that were common sense. It sounds as if you and Jumpdude have different interpretations of the problem, as described by Skymama. (I also think that the problem described is not that it's not turning over but that after it tries to start it chugs for a bit and then runs smoother after sereral tries... like the computer is getting unreliable/false data from sensors about the engine's condition.) Maybe it would be best if Skymama would hook up a microphone and post a wave file of her making the noise.....you know, as if she were describing the problem to her tech. That always seems to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpdude 0 #42 July 3, 2009 QuoteYou don't think people are getting worked up over this, now do you??? :-) Skymama: Just make sure to remove the positive battery cable when installing the new engine coolant temp sensor so the computer clears and then...Vroom! Off I go into victory. :-) Whatcha think jumpdude?? No back-up here or what? Yep, I agree. I don't usually disconnect the Battery cable usually don't clear the codes on the OBDII system, that takes a scanner. It does work on the old systems, but we don't have that luxery now with the new systems. I'm leaning toward the CTS myself, but like I said, we're trying to figure this thing out long distance. Who knows, We may all be wrong. I guess we'll see what she comes back with when she gets it fixed.Refuse to Lose!!! Failure is NOT an option! 1800skyrideripoff.com Nashvilleskydiving.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #43 July 3, 2009 QuoteAn engine coolant temp sensor may not throw the check engine light on right away. If bad, it makes the car hard to start and can very well make it run funny at idle. It can make the car hard to start. But most of the time will not. Btw wich temp sensor are you talking about. Most cars have 2-3 temp. sensors. You might want to tell her wich one to check. QuoteBattery making a car chug while running???? Hmm. I clearly stated that the way she descibed it i thought she was saying that it hard to start. But yes a bad battery can make a car chug as you are describing! QuoteI think, even being a woman (which is a rude statement) she is describing the car troubles perfectly. That is not rude! The avg. woman has no clue about cars internal workings! It was no desribed perfectly or people would not have to ask what she was meaing. QuoteI personally would put my money on an engine coolant temp sensor. How much money you got? That is a 1 in 20,000 chance. I have no problem taking your money!Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #44 July 3, 2009 I agree completely! None of us no shit without being there. Altho a better descrition would be nice Quote That's my 1/2 cents worth. (that's about all it's worth Fuck your opinion is worth more than mineNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dresherr 0 #45 July 3, 2009 I'll bet my 2 cents it's the engine coolant temp sesor. (The one that's plugged in near the themostat, not the sensor that only sends info to the gauge in the dash but the one that sends info to the ecu) I don't mean to get all hyped up but I am curious to see what it is. P.S. I like the idea of the microphone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpdude 0 #46 July 3, 2009 Agreed, Not the gauge sending unit, It does nothing to control the engine. I'm stepping out, be back later. (just thought I'd give the warning) Refuse to Lose!!! Failure is NOT an option! 1800skyrideripoff.com Nashvilleskydiving.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #47 July 3, 2009 Just tell your kid that after the first attempt to start the engine, depress the gas pedal to the floor and try again. Betcha it starts right up.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dresherr 0 #48 July 3, 2009 Maybe but she still needs to fix the problem for the long haul. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #49 July 3, 2009 long haul? there is no long haul with a 98 taurus. www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #50 July 3, 2009 QuoteQuoteYou don't think people are getting worked up over this, now do you??? :-) Skymama: Just make sure to remove the positive battery cable when installing the new engine coolant temp sensor so the computer clears and then...Vroom! Off I go into victory. :-) Whatcha think jumpdude?? No back-up here or what? Yep, I agree. I don't usually disconnect the Battery cable usually don't clear the codes on the OBDII system, that takes a scanner. It does work on the old systems, but we don't have that luxery now with the new systems. I'm leaning toward the CTS myself, but like I said, we're trying to figure this thing out long distance. Who knows, We may all be wrong. I guess we'll see what she comes back with when she gets it fixed. IIRC, most OBD-II systems will clear a minor fault and the MIL will go off after 3 cycles of the car running. Not that autozone wont do it for free, but all it really takes is driving the car on the freeway a couple times for the computer to decide that its working fine again."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
