blackdog 0 #1 June 10, 2009 What is the opinion of the group if someone borrows a canopy, damages it extensively and returns it. Would you offer to replace, repair or tell them they are SOL? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hausse 0 #2 June 10, 2009 I'd pay for it for sure and would expect the same from somebody borrowing my gear. You break it, you bought it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverbry 0 #3 June 10, 2009 It would only be right to pay for it.After all if it was in good condition when you got it it should be returned in the same condition-------------------------------------------------- Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!! D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 June 10, 2009 You broke it, you bought it. Pay to fix/replace.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #5 June 10, 2009 Roger that. Or at least repair to "as issued" condition. I guess when such a topic is brought up it is because a situation has arisen where this is not the case. But I would figure that as a whole the skydiving community understands how valuable to us our skydiving gear is (rightly so) and also understands the trust that comes with loaning our gear to others. Any skydiver who doesn't understand this will have a long difficult road ahead of them in the sport... Elvisio "I have met one or two though..." Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverbry 0 #6 June 10, 2009 So,someone damage you chute?-------------------------------------------------- Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!! D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LisaH 0 #7 June 10, 2009 Anything borrowed should be returned in the same condition it was in when it was handed to them.Be yourself! MooOOooOoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hausse 0 #8 June 10, 2009 I think if I could get it done in anyway financially, I would actually buy the canopy to the price it was worth before I fucked it up and give them cash. Having it patched makes it lose lots of value so I wouldn't feel that that would be fair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poe62 0 #9 June 10, 2009 I can't believe there are people out there who would think it's okay to NOT pay for or replace something they damaged whether it's skydiving or not.~Nikki http://www.facebook.com/poe62 Irgity Dirgity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #10 June 10, 2009 +1 but there are plenty of onionhead asshats out there for this too even come up !!! smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #11 June 10, 2009 >I can't believe there are people out there who would think it's okay to NOT >pay for or replace something they damaged whether it's skydiving or not. It all depends on what your arrangement is. If the agreement is "use it however you like; I don't care what you do with it" then there's no problem damaging stuff. If the agreement is normal wear and tear is OK, then that means that the usual wear that you see during canopy use is OK. If the agreement is "return it exactly as I gave it to you" I wouldn't borrow it, because I can't ensure that. Canopies wear. But the key is to talk about this BEFORE lending/borrowing gear, to help prevent misunderstandings. A classic case - You really need a canopy. Your friend has an old Nova. He says "well, it's very very old, and it's pretty fragile. I don't jump it any more and I was just going to throw it out, but if you want to use it, OK. Just be careful!" You say "OK, thanks, I'll be careful." You make 4 jumps on it and it blows a seam. You return it and he is indignant and wants it repaired. "But you said you were going to throw it out! And I checked - no one will work on a Nova any more." "Then I want a new Blade! You broke it; you owe me." (And yes, I've seen stuff like that happen.) The key there is to find out what his expectations are _before_ borrowing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DangerRoo 0 #12 June 10, 2009 agreed! big boy rules, you break it you pay for it (love the comment "onionhead asshats" lol) (I.C.D#2 VP) ""I'm good with my purple penis straw" ~sky mama Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OlympiaStoica 0 #13 June 10, 2009 Just as I got off student status, my friend loned to me his spare container+reserve. It was in great condition, not a scratch on it -- few of my ass landings later, that wasn't the case anymore. As a result, I offered to buy it from him (which he accepted). If someone damages something of mine, I'd expect he/she to fix/replace it; I just simply don't see an alternative ... O Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #14 June 10, 2009 First things first!! When you borrow anything to anyone, state (clearly and firmly) the terms. i.e. "You’re welcome to borrow it. However, if you break it you own it!" If you can't afford to replace it, you probably shouldn't be borrowing it. It’s worth about $750.00 so be careful. Then when something does happen, you’re covered. If you want this to stand up in court, get it in writing. That being said, by all means if you break something you should "buck-up" and take responsibility for it.Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuFantasma 0 #15 June 10, 2009 QuoteWhat is the opinion of the group if someone borrows a canopy, damages it extensively and returns it. Would you offer to replace, repair or tell them they are SOL? Damaging a canopy extensively? Why would you even attempt to return it ? Bite the bullet and buy a new one for the owner and chalk it down as a lesson. Anything other than that is right down rude!Y yo, pa' vivir con miedo, prefiero morir sonriendo, con el recuerdo vivo". - Ruben Blades, "Adan Garcia" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 37 #16 June 10, 2009 The offer needs to be made to replace it with something of a comparable value. It's up to the owner to decline the offer or to accept a repair. Telling someone they are SOL is just rude and means your mama didn't raise you right. She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hausse 0 #17 June 10, 2009 I borrow my gear quite frequently (I'm not one of the weirdos who are crazy worried about it. Scratches etc. just happen) but I only borrow it to people of which I know that if they fuck it up they pay for it. If I thought I'd even have to mention that, they wouldn't get my gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #18 June 10, 2009 You clearly have a specific scenario in mind. Please tell us what it is so we can mediate. Of course, we will also give you 13 different opinions, 8 bad analogies, call each other asshats, and turn it into a gun thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blackdog 0 #19 June 10, 2009 Quote You clearly have a specific scenario in mind. Please tell us what it is so we can mediate. Of course, we will also give you 13 different opinions, 8 bad analogies, call each other asshats, and turn it into a gun thread. I love the word asshat. I was just an innocent bystander to a situation thats all Made me think twice about whether or not I would loan gear. Starting to think I won't without a 'you break you buy' talk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #20 June 10, 2009 I lend gear out often. But I always make sure that the people know what the cost of the gear is, and that I may expect them to buy the gear from me if they fuck it up, rather than repair it - AT MY DISCRETION. If they tell me they cannot afford it, I simply tell them that than they cannot afford to jump it either. Every situation is different... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #21 June 11, 2009 Quote You really need a canopy. Your friend has an old Nova.... Friends don't let friends jump Novas. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #22 June 11, 2009 It would depend a lot on the conditions the lender communicated to the lendee... Was the canopy given with no strings attached or was the canopy given with the understanding that it would be returned as-is?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
npgraphicdesign 3 #23 June 11, 2009 Quote Quote You really need a canopy. Your friend has an old Nova.... Friends don't let friends jump Novas. Nova = no go. Am I right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 130 #24 June 11, 2009 Quote Quote Quote You really need a canopy. Your friend has an old Nova.... Friends don't let friends jump Novas. Nova = no go. Am I right? that was true for the car but I love my Nova canopyGive one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #25 June 11, 2009 A similar situation happened to me when I was a beginner jumper. I was borrowing an old PD 9-cell (big square F111 canopy to those thinking "sabre). The jumper said he was thinking about selling it, but was thinking that it may not be airworthy. The left stabilizer ripped apart on opening. My rigger checked the canopy after that and the fabric ripped apart at the tail (center cell) and the bridle attachment. The jumper wanted the canopy replaced even though he had said he thought it might be unairworthy (shame on me for jumping it in the first place). A compromise was worked out and everyone left happy. Its all about just talking it out and coming to an agreement.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
