Freeflysmiley 2 #1 August 23, 2005 Hi peeps, I know Sabre2 openings have been done to death, but I wanted advice form fellow owners and riggers specifically about long snivels ( hard openings/ off headings etc have been discussed lots). I have had a few 800-1000ft snivels on a SABRE2 150 recently, one which i nearly chopped. I pro-pack, and do not roll the nose in. Has anyone experienced this or have any advice? Cheers-------------------------------------------------- Practise the 6 P's! -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #2 August 23, 2005 Quote have any advice? Enjoy the nice, soft openings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Freeflysmiley 2 #3 August 23, 2005 I do , just not when they go on too long!-------------------------------------------------- Practise the 6 P's! -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #4 August 23, 2005 Measure your slider and contact PD with your concerns. They seem to have a lot of different slider size mis-matches, from reading this forum. That's what I concluded, at least. A 1000 foot snivle would have me pretty concerned, too. What is that, 12 seconds? Scary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #5 August 23, 2005 Is that canopy really taking that long to open? What kind of altimeter do you use? Using 3500 feet as an example: Are letting go of the pilot chute at 3500 feet or are you waving off at 3500 feet and then pulling?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #6 August 23, 2005 I have 800-foot snivels every time on my Sabre2. I throw my PC at 3,000 and saddle out at 2,200 plus or minus 100 feet. I have almost 600 jumps on Sabre2 canopies and that is my experience almost every time. It’s called a soft opening. It’s part of what the Sabre2 is designed to do. I can shorten the opening by about 200 feet by leaving the nose out, as opposed to pushing it in. But why would I want to do that. I like the soft openings of my Sabre2. I guess I don’t quite understand your problem. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #7 August 23, 2005 My Pilot opens about 200m long for terminal velocity. So? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #8 August 24, 2005 I have noticed that sometimes if I waveoff at 3000 feet, I am usually under good canopy at 2000 feet. In reality, I'm waving off at 3000 feet, doing a careful motion to pull stable, letting go of the pilot chute at 2700 feet, and under good canopy at 2000. Lately, I've been liking high pulls (4K and 5K) for most solo jumps. I've been monitoring the altimeter when I waveoff, when I let go of the pilot chute, and when the last end cell inflates. I see that my Sabre 1 opens with about 600-700 feet. No hard openings lately, so I am happy about that. In fact, I can't even remember my Sabre 1 openings lately - they've been more on-heading and predictable - so uneventful openings I don't remember are the good openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #9 August 24, 2005 i've put over 300 jumps on a sabre2 170 and the openings are about 500 ft. on average. i like the soft openings and it has never gone 1000 ft. on me. edit: i don't push the nose in or roll it at all. i leave it as is from between my legs during a pro pack."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #10 August 24, 2005 QuoteMeasure your slider and contact PD with your concerns. They seem to have a lot of different slider size mis-matches, from reading this forum. That's what I concluded, at least. A 1000 foot snivle would have me pretty concerned, too. What is that, 12 seconds? Scary. Well...and I'm probably going to regret putting myself out there, but here goes...actually, it's not a case of "mis-matched" sliders, but rather a case of PD satisfying the customer. Some people like quick openings, some like slow. It's nearly all relative to what you are comfortable with compared to what you have experienced. This is obvious by the dynamics of "concern" over different opening characteristics: "I have closed end cells"...or..."I have hard openings"...while discussing the SAME canopy! The Sabre2 is a slow inflating canopy, but sometimes with inadequate pilot chutes, improper packing techniques (improper line stows included), less than ideal body position/speed during deployment, and yes, even the standard slider, some people are not achieving the openings that they would like. Since it is impossible to determine if many of these factors are being realistically reported from customer feedback (ah, but we hate to think we are doing something wrong, so we look to ourselves last), PD will trade out sliders to slow/speed up openings according to the preference of the owner. This will often make the customer happy, but if the other variables are not addressed, it may not "solve" their "issue." Being a Spectre owner, I expect 700+ openings (that was one big selling point for me, along with my preferred landings, and how much fun it is to fly). I have had only one hard opening (didn't slow down from freefly speed = my fault), one fast opening (not hard, but fast @ 400 ft - badly in need of a reline = my fault), and one extremely long snivel (1100+ ft opening, but I didn't pack, so I couldn't say the cause = who knows!?). 3 out of 250+ on that canopy for me means that the canopy is fine, and that I am the dumbass! I tried the Sabre2, liked it, but felt more comfortable with the Spectre at the time. I am getting ready to demo a Sabre2 again, because I think that I will like it better now at my experience level (minimal as it is). Sabre2 owners tell me I will gladly turn in my Spectre, but it will take some convincing - I LOVE my Spectre! I'll let you all know, if you care to hear my comparison. It is, of course, entirely possible that someone could get a "dud" canopy (they are made by humans, after all), but more often than not, it is a packing issue or one of the many other variables (pilot chute size/deployment speed/body position/density altitude/ill-fitting rig/and so on, and so on) that contribute to unsatisfactory openings on PD canopies. A "dud" canopy is not going to give you several nice openings and then all of a sudden slam you (unless, of course, you packed properly at first and then just started cramming it in the bag). A "bad" canopy is going to consistently mess you up, while maybe occasionally fooling you with a decent opening. I would like to say this about ALL canopies, but I can only speak for the ones that I'm educated about and trust with my life. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Freeflysmiley 2 #11 August 24, 2005 Yes but not all the time, usually it's about 500ft. Rarely I have these long snivels which is why something must be happening. I wave at 3200 and dump by 3000ft, the last one had my bottom dytter setting going (2000ft) which is my decision alititude before opening hence a near cut away. If it happened all the time I'd change sliders or pull higher but it doesn't hence wjhy I'm perplexed!-------------------------------------------------- Practise the 6 P's! -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Freeflysmiley 2 #12 August 24, 2005 QuoteMy Pilot opens about 200m long for terminal velocity. So? I'm not really concerned about your pilot, it wasn't my question. And 200m = 600ft which is a perfectly acceptable opening IMHO seeing as u asked-------------------------------------------------- Practise the 6 P's! -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #13 August 24, 2005 Where do you put your slider on packing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Riggerpete 0 #14 August 24, 2005 I have had two Sabre2s of the same size. After each canopy had about 50 jumps (the point where they lost enough of their perosity to settle down while packing), I found the snivel characteristics to be about the same. For me, the snivels tend to be about 600 to 800 ft. My suggestion would be that first up, you make sure that what you think is 1000 ft is actually 1000 ft. Deploy watching the alti, making sure to throw the pilot chute at a fixed altitute, and watch the alti throughout the deployment. If these 'long' snivels are only happening rarely, I would tend to point to packing, and pay particular attention to what you are doing with the nose cells. If they are a frequent occurance, I would talk to PD about a new slider. Just my 2c. Pete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #15 August 24, 2005 You need to watch your canopy during a long snivle. I can't imagine how a canopy loaded at 1.2:1 like yours is taking 1000 feet to decelerate you from 120 mph. You have something affecting the "normal" drag, whether it's pc hesitation, canopy not leaving the D-bag at line stretch or the slider isn't allowing for quick inflation of the "ball", something is wacked. Without watching the deployment, you won't get anywhere, in my opinion. But yeah, throwing at 3k and hearing your hard-deck alarm has got to be pretty tense. Be careful till you get it figured out. You might want to start dumping at 3500 in the mean time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Freeflysmiley 2 #16 August 26, 2005 Thx all for the advice-------------------------------------------------- Practise the 6 P's! -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
