chuckakers 425 #26 July 20, 2010 According to most people who live through collisions, it's because someone failed to see somone else. We can, and have at great length, discussed patterns, wing loading variables, high performance landing techniques, and any assortmant of other things that may contribute to or guard against collisions, but the only common theme in nearly all collisions is failure to see and avoid by at least one person. That's why I pay a lot more attention to where other jumpers are than any other single aspect of canopy flight in crowded skies. I don't rely on others seeing me. I keep my eyes on them - constantly.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #27 July 21, 2010 Quote Compounding this is wind. Smaller parachutes will maintain a better glide over the ground when flying into the wind. Larger parachutes will maintain a better glide over the ground when flying downwind. Why wouldn´t the glide ratio be the same as the canopy always flies into the wind? In other words, If one could plot the intersecting flight vectors of 2 canopies involved in a collision, the vectors, glides and positions would remain unaffected by the direction of the wind in relationship to flight direction would they not? Take care, space Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #28 July 21, 2010 how about guys spiralling down? i've had a not so nice experience with a student the other day, while i was lower than him, he starts spiralling until his eyes must of popped out; he wasnt very far away either.. he got his ass chewed by his instructor! proper education may be the key? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #29 July 21, 2010 >Why wouldn´t the glide ratio be the same as the canopy always flies into >the wind? If you ignore the ground - it is always the same. >If one could plot the intersecting flight vectors of 2 canopies involved in >a collision, the vectors, glides and positions would remain unaffected by the >direction of the wind in relationship to flight direction would they not? Again, if there was no ground to deal with, then you are correct. However, wind becomes a factor in determining landing glide because people set up patterns over the ground, not based on airspeed. (Which makes sense since they want to land on a specific part of the ground.) Therefore a canopy that penetrates more poorly is going to turn sooner to reach a given target. This can give rise to traffic problems since larger canopies will be turning earlier and approaching more steeply (from the perspective of someone on the ground.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #30 July 21, 2010 QuoteAccording to most people who live through collisions, it's because someone failed to see somone else. We can, and have at great length, discussed patterns, wing loading variables, high performance landing techniques, and any assortmant of other things that may contribute to or guard against collisions, but the only common theme in nearly all collisions is failure to see and avoid by at least one person. That's why I pay a lot more attention to where other jumpers are than any other single aspect of canopy flight in crowded skies. I don't rely on others seeing me. I keep my eyes on them - constantly. There's a pretty big blind spot above and behind, which is exactly where the person pulling a 270 or spiralling in the pattern will come from.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #31 July 21, 2010 QuoteQuoteAccording to most people who live through collisions, it's because someone failed to see somone else. We can, and have at great length, discussed patterns, wing loading variables, high performance landing techniques, and any assortmant of other things that may contribute to or guard against collisions, but the only common theme in nearly all collisions is failure to see and avoid by at least one person. That's why I pay a lot more attention to where other jumpers are than any other single aspect of canopy flight in crowded skies. I don't rely on others seeing me. I keep my eyes on them - constantly. There's a pretty big blind spot above and behind, which is exactly where the person pulling a 270 or spiralling in the pattern will come from. You are absolutely correct about that. I can't see what someone directly above me is doing, but I do everything I can to identify everyone in my group and other groups within striking distance. Beyond that, there is indeed a blind spot, but knowing - not guessing or assuming - where others are gives the jumper real pieces of the pattern puzzle to work with. It's a simple matter of anticipation. Anticipation keeps the jumper ahead of the curve. Knowing where the others jumpers are helps the jumper anticipate what they might do. Knowing where the other jumpers are and not simply knowing that they're out there removes the jumper from the list of those on the load that DON"T know where everyone is. The most potentially dangerous thing on any skydive is losing sight of others in the air with you. If EVERYONE on the load load knows where EVERYONE ELSE is, it's a pretty good bet they won't collide. But using your "270 from above" scenario, my original point stands. I wouldn't be able to see it coming, and the knucklehead that hit me obviously wouldn't have seen me - at least not soon enough.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #32 July 21, 2010 Thanks Billvon, you just made more precise and complete what I had in mind. This holding is OK if nobody is behind and above you. But in any case, since your speed is way slower by doing so collision chances are decreased.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #33 July 23, 2010 I have posted this more than once. The 3 canopy collisions I witnessed invoved a Golden Knight cameraman and a French 8 way team member, a CRW competitor into his team mate on landing above the peas and an airline pilot into a long time jumper. Collisions under canopy are just like traffic collisions because someone, or both, drivers are operating with heads up their asses. Downsizing, fast canopies, lack of a pattern, hook turns etc. all up the ante, but it all comes down to looking out for yourself and the other pilots and flying defensively. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
