spootch 0 #26 July 19, 2010 Quote Quote ....or you could just track & pull a little higher I already voted againt that option. The scenario presented was of a group jump, and the others in the group have an expectation that EVERYONE will follow the plan, to include break off and pull altitudes. As others have mentioned, this could create a hazzard for jumpers from other groups. Regardless of right and wrong, when you break off from a jump at 4500ft, you can only track for so long because of the ground. If you left a group at 6k or 7k, the tendency would be to track off a little longer, creating a possible conflict with subsequent groups out of the plane. None of this is mentioning tracking dives or wingsuiters who might be on the load. In the absence of an 'emergency' the best plan is to stick with the original plan, the one that every other jumper in your group is counting on. I would hardly call a long spot an 'emergency'.[/reply Yes, and the "group jump" is a 4 way. I agree sticking with larger groups you had better stick to the plan especially if breaking in waves, but with a 2 way or 4 way you can leave the group early and safely. By turning and tracking instead of turning those next 3 points, you signal to your group you are done. A 180 turn & flat track will put you above and away from the group in your space. I would not think a person would have a tendancy to track longer if the goal is to pull higher. There is also nothing wrong with opening higher. Tandems pull at 6-5 , videots pull around 4, most others pull anywhere down to 2200. If you are flying your wingsuit or organising a tracking dive through that stew you are asking to be hit. A long spot is not an emergency, I agree, but smacking a 3 wire fence in the middle of a canola field is, or twisting your ankle on a rock. So is having an entire dz looking for you. not to mention the meat wagon driving through the farmers field to get you and your friends. We all know a farmer McNasty out there. all because I chose not to pull a 1000 higher? My dzo would shit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #27 July 19, 2010 I hear what you're saying, but the OP has 40 jumps, and there's a strong possibility that he's jumping with others of similar experience. One of them leaving in the middle of the jump and deploying is likely to create confusion and initiate who knows what sort of response from the others. Plan the dive and dive the plan. I'm not sure about your jump numbers, but with 6 years in the sport I'm willing to bet you have at least double or triple the experience of the OP. You're approach may be appropriate for you, but we're not talking about what you should do. Sometimes I jump with buddies who have 1000's of jumps and we don't plan anything. Head down, RW, tracking, pulling high, pulling low, whatever. We just get out last to keep it 'safe', and have at it. While this works well for us, I would not reccomend it to others with fewer jumps or fewer jumps with those specific jumpers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #28 July 19, 2010 QuoteThat one guy might be the camera flyer. He is, after all, looking straight down through you and can easily see what's going on as far as the spot is concerned. In teams I've jumped with the signal was the camera flyer would drop down level with the 4-way team, get the attention of somebody and then he'd pull in place. That's about as clear an indication things are fucked up as it gets. In thousands of camera jumps, I used it exactly once. Every time I fly camera for a group, in my path to the step, I usually have a second or two to look down and check the spot, and always make it a point to do so for the teams that I fly for. Unless it's Load 1 and winds are drastically different than expected, I consider a bad spot for the 4 way team to be my fault. But that's just me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spootch 0 #29 July 19, 2010 agreed! I had not realised the OPs jump numbers. I also currently jump at a dz that uses 206s and 182s for jump ships, so I guess I refereced the thread to scenarios I see there. It's not uncommon to dispatch 2 novice jumpers and then set up a 4 way on the wing. (Yes, i spot the plane the ol fashioned way) We try to give the novices "the good spot" and after settig up the 4 way we can run a bit long once everyone is under wing. Most times we can go down to pull altitude, sometimes not. If your needed to work every other load, the last thing you need is that awkward ride back to the dz......with the dzo..... in the dzo's truck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #30 July 19, 2010 QuoteEvery time I fly camera for a group, in my path to the step, I usually have a second or two to look down and check the spot, and always make it a point to do so for the teams that I fly for. Unless it's Load 1 and winds are drastically different than expected, I consider a bad spot for the 4 way team to be my fault. But that's just me. Sure. On every team somebody is actually responsible for making the call. Usually it's one of the guys in the door. As a camera flyer, you're always one of the guys in the door. That said, it may be that the team captain, coach, outside center, has the actual responsibility. There has to be some sort of agreement. Of course, you always have the option of backing out. In competition or on a big-way with a ton of people counting on you, that may be justified or not. It can be a very tough call. You may need to be the guy that says, "Hey guys, this just isn't reasonable." Knowing where that line is can be tough because you might be trying to make it over a big-way jump organizer or a nationals gold medal winner who's getting paid a lot of money to coach the team you're jumping with. You may at some point have to do something that is even technically illegal. Sometimes there is pressure to push things and if a person never pushes things, they never know their limits. Even so, you still have to always leave an out. What I described above, the thing about going level with the team and pulling to let them know the situation is fucked, is just that; one more way out of a bad situation.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #31 July 19, 2010 Agreed 100%. Hope you didn't think I was arguing with you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #32 July 19, 2010 QuoteAgreed 100%. Hope you didn't think I was arguing with you Nope. I just needed an excuse to expand I what I'd previously said.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #33 July 20, 2010 QuoteIf I'm jumping with a group and, while in freefall, I realize that our spot is not so good, what should I do? Kick yourself in the ass for not bringing a cell phone along.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #34 July 21, 2010 QuoteKick yourself in the ass for not bringing a cell phone along. While that's a common answer, I wonder how common it is to actually do. Where do you put it? Sit on it in a back pocket? Uncomfortably in the way and covered by a leg strap in a front pocket? No space for it in some small jump ticket / earplug pocket on the arm or inside the chest of a jump suit? Afraid to take one's fancy smart phone along and crack the screen? Maybe some people have solutions but it just doesn't seem like a simple thing for everyone to do. Yes it can work out, if say you have a large exterior jumpsuit pocket with a really secure closure. Or if you happen to wear cargo pants with big leg pockets under the jumpsuit, as I did a couple weeks ago when carrying a Blackberry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 425 #35 July 21, 2010 Quote Quote Kick yourself in the ass for not bringing a cell phone along. While that's a common answer, I wonder how common it is to actually do. Where do you put it? Sit on it in a back pocket? Uncomfortably in the way and covered by a leg strap in a front pocket? No space for it in some small jump ticket / earplug pocket on the arm or inside the chest of a jump suit? Afraid to take one's fancy smart phone along and crack the screen? Maybe some people have solutions but it just doesn't seem like a simple thing for everyone to do. Yes it can work out, if say you have a large exterior jumpsuit pocket with a really secure closure. Or if you happen to wear cargo pants with big leg pockets under the jumpsuit, as I did a couple weeks ago when carrying a Blackberry. Carry it in the inside chest pocket with the screen facing your body to avoid a direct strike to the display. Or hitch hike back to the DZ. Sometimes you meet the most interesting people.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #36 July 21, 2010 QuoteQuoteKick yourself in the ass for not bringing a cell phone along. While that's a common answer, I wonder how common it is to actually do. . I do.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #37 July 21, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Kick yourself in the ass for not bringing a cell phone along. While that's a common answer, I wonder how common it is to actually do. . I do. Ditto. Landed out a few times without one (yeah I'm a slow learner), been left in the snow for 45 minutes waiting for the van that forgot half a load, a few jumps like that and you'll bring a cellphone along next time Now just don't forget to charge it every now and then... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sped 0 #38 July 21, 2010 I bring along a few bucks and look for the liquor store to land at. A bunch of skydivers will be along in a few minutes. Actually I have packed up my rig walked to the road and flagged someone down.Ed "Sped" Hauck D-12662 ed.hauck@gmail.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burtonjm 0 #39 July 22, 2010 I bring my cell phone and a pull-up cord on every jump.This shit, right here, is OK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drewcarp 0 #40 July 22, 2010 If you have a choice between a field with one cow or one with a lot of cows, pick the one with a lot of cows. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hahaha, that is a good call. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DocPop 1 #41 July 22, 2010 QuoteIf you have a choice between a field with one cow or one with a lot of cows, pick the one with a lot of cows. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hahaha, that is a good call. That's just bull."The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
